That her words about the UK really depressed me?

[NaturalScone]

Talking to a Swedish colleague this afternoon, not had much of a chance to in the past and we ended up discussing the news.
She mentioned how peculiar our politics were, how we have such a massive wealth divide (as we all know) with little encouragement for people from all walks of life and backgrounds to have equal opportunities. By this she meant how Uni education is funded over there so nobody is in debt, which means many more young people are able to chase professional careers, without massive debt.
Also, the work ethic, how people in Northern Europe are encouraged to prioritise health and wellbeing as well as work, and how well housing, health, etc work over there.

I stupidly mentioned Boris J and she said he would likely already be sacked or various offences. I also didn't know that many European monarchs had to either self fund (?) or had most of their palaces belonging to the public.

Are we going backwards here? It left me feeling pretty depressed. I see people on here all the time saying we are so lucky here, but I think the bar is set really low compared to much of Europe. And now we are less connected to Europe, many people here only judge our standards by the US, as if the EU is somehow 'foreign'.
It all sounds a bit scary if I think about it, we do seem so easily led by a one-party representational media/press (right). And whilst I am not generally partisan, I do feel weirdly uncomfortable. She even said the tories were set to abolish channel 4 and soon the BBC because they were too neutral. I find that fairly terrifying and wonder where we re headed. I previously considered Brexit an issue of immigration, but to be honest I now wonder if that was a red herring and the true motivation was to get us clear of having to take on EU worker's rights and values.

I usually look for the positives in what we've got, because it feels better than admitting things are that bad, but now I just don't know. And not much I can do about it either!
Something does feel harsher and more divided nowadays, and politicians are able to do anything without fear of reprisal. The UK press is incredibly dire! Do other people see this?

Not just in the UK. Have a look at Timothy Snyder's book 'Road to Unfreedom" in which he discusses 'sadopopulism' in the US. It's quite eye-opening.

I paid 33% in England for many years. No big deal. The UK was a better country back then. The rich actually paid tax for one thing.

Like always this thread is just descending into "I hate Johnson". 🥱

I think one disadvantage we have in the Uk is that we speak the same language as the US. It is even more divided as a country than us but if there is a Twitter spat or whatever you are likely to be joined by angry US posters too, whcih can probably fan the flames. Whereas a debate in french or german probably only attracts other French or Germans.
Look how involved we were in Trump as President. I doubt the rest of Europe was as interested.
So we get wound up by stuff that isn't really relevant.

I think we are very much affected by our media here. And that can have negative impacts.

But also I feel mn is moving away from what I experience day to day. So many posts on how shit it is but I don’t see that from people generally.

Also as someone who moved here, and chooses to stay in London I get why people are attracted to big cities such as this one (I don’t have that much experience living outside London)

Sweden isn’t a draw for me although I’m sure it’s nice. I seem to have lived in quite similar countries - US, U.K. and Aus all attractive to people trying to enter

Most people in mainland Europe can speak more than one language & tbh most people in the UK are not interested in politics, wherever it originates.

...and yes folk in europe were very interested in Trump, especially when he started on NATO.

Yes, our media here is toxic. It will become much more so, as the government attacks Channel 4 and the BBC. I finally decided I couldn't cope with my search engine screen anymore - full of articles from UK newspapers just aiming to produce anger and division. I swopped to a French screen, and the tone is completely different. There is no anger, no nastiness. These things really matter - it's what people are breathing in day after day, and it's changing us.

What your Swedish colleague says OP does not surprise me at all. When I go abroad I hide the fact of coming from these shores as much as possible, fortunate to look like my French grandmother.

I find it interesting to see some of the perception of the UK from French news websites or French language tv.

Calcuathor that’s interesting.
But it’s not just the media here which is toxic - twitter etc are really toxic. On mumsnet there are often vicious attacks on anyone who the poster disagrees with - see KenDodd’s post on this thread.
I can’t speak good enough French to swap from UK media - I wish I could as I’d be interested to read it.
Also, are the French less critical of their country? Much has a been made in this thread about visitors to the UK making no bones about what a dump it is and many British posters coming in to agree with them.
If a British person went to live abroad and posted about how much they disliked it, would they be agreed with or criticised for slagging off the host country?

Yes I was just thinking that SM is more toxic

You see it on here a fair bit

Also on Twitter etc, if you ask any MP how much abuse they get

I think the pandemic shifted the media again and really showed the uptick you can get by peddling fear and negativity for prolonged periods. Irl I don’t see this, out yesterday so much is thriving, but I think the impact lingers which I’m not surprised by

She is not wrong. UK is in a mess. Our democracy is going down the pan. It worries me sick.

I really don't see it as a toxic media thing... surely its peoples lived experiences?

In no particular order... Healthcare, transport - both quality and cost, roads/potholes, education, social services, children's services, housing, again cost and quality.

Inequality, i think does more for division and anger & the media reflects this.

I cannot believe a story in the 'mail today "Angela Raynor using Basic instinct tactics to distract Boris Johnson"

Is he incapable of not looking at a woman's legs?

Yes Toxic but where did this story come from? Our MPs.

It's the stories the press focus on, how much they exaggerate, and the language they use. I must have clicked on an Express article because I used to get a lot of stuff from that nasty newspaper. If anyone said anything that wasn't in total agreement with the other person, it was reported as them "fuming", "hitting out", "slamming" (there are some good examples in today's Express, I notice). Everything was written to encourage people to despise, envy and be angry towards others. And like other newspapers in the UK, the reporting was enormously biased / inaccurate. I found the constant nasty jeering at the EU / any EU country pretty distressing in the end. The relishing of any tiny nugget of negative news affecting a country in the EU. They were (and no doubt still are) very deliberately encouraging xenophobia. And bigging up Brexit by massively exaggerating any tiny bit of good news, and ignoring the bad, or blaming it on something other than Brexit.

An example from today's Express:
"France and Germany blasted for 'lagging behind' UK in supporting Ukraine military | World | News | Express.co.uk"
"Blasted " is another of their favourites. These words actually suggest violence. Everything is a competition, in which the UK is winning.

There’s plenty of negativity re the U.K. too which feeds into negativity on SM and the cycle grows.

headlines in pandemic used to great effect to create fear spikes and click bait.

I generally avoid headlines and use radio first and it’s much better imo as it avoids much of the click bait element

People in the UK, and in the US are brought up in a sort of self congratulatory culture. It’s a kind of national level gaslighting.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s true of many cultures, but the UK and US are quite similar in their sense of world importance. And blind to the massive problems that are glaringly obvious if you’re not raised in the culture.

The US is the ultimate democracy, good guys, his bless America, freedom and equality …. But from the outside we see human rights abuses, racism, appalling health care, gun crime, gangs, desperately poor education, corruption.

the uk has a legacy of colonialism and a built in superior to the world mentality, and it blinds them to even seeing what “lesser” countries are doing better because how can anything be better. The work ethic is so extreme that no other social contribution counts (even the Queen is judged by this). There’s a deeply ingrained subject mentality even in people who aren’t monarchists - a subtle know your place attitude that leaks through (eg in the ice on the windows heating cost threads a few weeks ago)

I don’t know what the answer is, and as I said it’s true of lots of countries. Maybe as we respond to the climate crisis we might all learn to think more like citizens of the world.

being open to criticism is a start though.

I think if your school has been rated "failing" your Hospital on "Black alert" and you've been told its a 3 year wait for your hernia op... the wheel on your car smashed up in a pot hole or you've spent 16 hours in a queue for a ferry... you re not likely to feel positive about the UK are you?

Blaming SM or the 'press is spectacularly missing the point.

100% agree with this. We are a dual US/UK family living in Europe. We don’t want to move back to either of our home countries, and our families are by turns amazed by our lifestyle and also a bit salty about the fact we feel we have it better here than we did ‘back home’. It’s like the suggestion that someone does something better than the UK or US is a total affront to everything they believe to be true

Well @Trivester I think the US is allowed to think they are special - cos they are, we need them100% when the Putins of this world flex their muscles. Or China starts threatening other island in the South China Sea!
The US provides all of the online stuff (virtually all) that we use every day and hopefully don't spy on us too much!
They are also pretty self sufficient.

The U.K. I feel has had some home truths in the last few years - slavery, racism, not being a world leader etc and I'd say we are adjusting to this new position though it will take a while.

So you're a bit out of date imv.

Give it a rest with your links @Clavinova Unless you’ve actually spent a lot of time or lived in Malmö you don’t know what you are talking about. Like most places, there are some problems- but it’s an absolutely beautiful city with a very friendly atmosphere. I’ve lived both in Malmö and UK, and I would pick Malmö without a doubt (love UK too).

This is interesting to me. The DM publishes a scummy article about something a couple of idiotic Tory MPs might have said, which they certainly should not have. Your interpretation is that the PM would want to look at her legs and that it is somehow his fault. You have no grounds for that and have bought into the Mail's narrative.
This is how the toxicity is allowed to spread unchallenged, it is our own perceptions and biases, encouraged by a complicit and amoral media.

This is how the toxicity is allowed to spread unchallenged, it is our own perceptions and biases, encouraged by a complicit and amoral media.

I heard this story being discussed earlier today, it was infuriating. An awful article but it gets people talking and becomes the ‘news’.

They were criticising it but maybe we should do better to not have it the first place nor give extra airtime to it.

A lot of the media is propelled by clicks and we get feedback cycles - the petrol crisis was a good example of this

Great post @Trivester.

It’s like the suggestion that someone does something better than the UK or US is a total affront to everything they believe to be true

I totally agree with that, and in fact said something similar to a friend last night.

If somebody was insulting another's hometown and claiming London to be the definition of utopia then I might well mention the knife crime. However, as that's not what this thread is about your comment is pretty nonsensical.

Unless you’ve actually spent a lot of time or lived in Malmö you don’t know what you are talking about

therocketwillfly so no one can say for example South Africa or New York is dangerous unless they’ve actually lived there?
Do posters have to have experienced life in Afghanistan before they can comment on it?