That her words about the UK really depressed me?

[NaturalScone]

Talking to a Swedish colleague this afternoon, not had much of a chance to in the past and we ended up discussing the news.
She mentioned how peculiar our politics were, how we have such a massive wealth divide (as we all know) with little encouragement for people from all walks of life and backgrounds to have equal opportunities. By this she meant how Uni education is funded over there so nobody is in debt, which means many more young people are able to chase professional careers, without massive debt.
Also, the work ethic, how people in Northern Europe are encouraged to prioritise health and wellbeing as well as work, and how well housing, health, etc work over there.

I stupidly mentioned Boris J and she said he would likely already be sacked or various offences. I also didn't know that many European monarchs had to either self fund (?) or had most of their palaces belonging to the public.

Are we going backwards here? It left me feeling pretty depressed. I see people on here all the time saying we are so lucky here, but I think the bar is set really low compared to much of Europe. And now we are less connected to Europe, many people here only judge our standards by the US, as if the EU is somehow 'foreign'.
It all sounds a bit scary if I think about it, we do seem so easily led by a one-party representational media/press (right). And whilst I am not generally partisan, I do feel weirdly uncomfortable. She even said the tories were set to abolish channel 4 and soon the BBC because they were too neutral. I find that fairly terrifying and wonder where we re headed. I previously considered Brexit an issue of immigration, but to be honest I now wonder if that was a red herring and the true motivation was to get us clear of having to take on EU worker's rights and values.

I usually look for the positives in what we've got, because it feels better than admitting things are that bad, but now I just don't know. And not much I can do about it either!
Something does feel harsher and more divided nowadays, and politicians are able to do anything without fear of reprisal. The UK press is incredibly dire! Do other people see this?

*homogeneous

I think many of us struggle to defend the UK, as it is easier than facing the thought that we may be going severely downhill. We DID once had a lot to be proud of, but most of that has been sold off to private enterprise. We are now left with sod all opportunity for progressing in life unless we are already wealthy - and this, to me is evident in the constant obsession with owning property and private schooling - we shouldn't need private schooling, ALL our schools should be that good.

I think it is something we have to at least acknowledge, and just do our best to remain aware of it.

Swedish woman was talking about other EU countries as well as Sweden. She is here due to family afaik.
There are many things to love about the UK, but it should't blind us to our dark side!

It simply isn’t possible to recreate the economy, society and lifestyle of Scandinavian countries in the U.K.

They have much smaller populations, more space, far more natural resources etc

Yes we're going backwards, and at speed.

The problems facing this country won't be fixed in a single Labour term. Short-termism is a big problem for the UK. There has to be a sea-change in the sort of country we want to be, releasing ourselves from 40 years of highly-damaging, market-knows- best neo-liberalism. But we are as divided as we were 6 years ago. I don't feel optimistic. Look, everyone knows other counties have their issues, but many seem to do a lot better at serving the needs of their people than we do.

There's no perfect society/economy - different societies pick different priorities. Maybe watch a bit of European media for some perspective. (Euronews is free on YouTube and will give you a roundup of some of the issues across Europe - many issues common across Europe , and that includes the UK).

I don't disagree with the sentiment as there are big problems to solve but I'm interested why there has historically been large immigration to the UK (pre-Brexit) if it's really greener elsewhere. I think there are elements that are greener, but nowhere has a perfect system - that doesn't exist.

Surely that's only a surprise if you've never thought critically about life, or find comfort in switching off the news and only watch the shows with sequins?

That’s a good thing - it’s how the country can afford to do stuff for its citizens.

I used to teach ESOL and taught students from across the whole of Europe. Most of them stayed in the UK and didn't want to go home. The two things that drove them to return the most were family and the weather. But all of them loved the freedom that the UK offered. And trust me all this stuff about how nhs us the worst health system, many talked about problems in their own country and even how treatment they got here wasn't even available in their own country.
Channel 4 needs to go. These days money is made through creating programmes which C4 can't do. It needs to be released from its present governance so it can compete.
I agree there are things I despair about Britain and a lot of that us to do with the lack of respect that people show to public property and spaces.
Buckingham Palace and Windsor Castle are not the private property of the Queen.
We can extol the virues of a place when we don't actually have to live there.

Yes, I feel sad about the standards in the UK and frightened for the next generation. A friend described the UK as being in a race to the bottom, which seems to describe it well.

Because English is the most widely-spoken language in the world.

And much better public services, rates of happiness and lower levels of inequality.

Yes, that’s the picture they like to paint. But you don’t have to scratch too far below that surface to find it isn’t as rosy as all that.

My friend lives in Sweden. She sees past the rhetoric and there are definitely more problems than her Swedish husband sees.He tried to claim there were few issues with poverty and homelessness in Sweden. In her job she deals with it all the time. She says the Swedes just don’t see it unless it’s right in front of them. They buy the politicking far more easily.

Sure they have great subsided childcare and parental leave but the veneer of equality isn’t what she and her friends experienced. When they visited recently, it was obvious she was default parent, her husband would just wander off places and leave her with the kids. I questioned it as he had been the same when the kids were little and she said most of her friends found the same thing. Finically they are on a similar salary to us but we definitely have way more disposable income.

Did she also say that Swedes pay one of the highest levels of tax in the world? 32% basic rate income tax?

Whereas we pay 20% plus 13.25% NI.

University is funded in Scotland for anyone who wishes to go and it has been for a long time.

Not for anyone, places are capped and so participation in University by lower socio-economic groups is lower in Scotland than in England. Not to mention the Scottish Universities haven't had the same injection of cash that the English Universities have had and so there has been an impact on quality.

Well, Sweden has its own problems of course but I don’t think she’s wrong about the UK and I think her view is pretty widely held- we’re basically seen as a bit of a basket case. It’s extremely depressing and I only hope that this corrupt government is sent packing at the next election.

historically been large immigration to the UK (pre-Brexit) if it's really greener elsewhere

Other European nations have far higher levels of immigration than we do.

@Kendodd

As I always say, we get what we vote for and have nobody else to blame except ourselves.

I have never voted for this , millions don't vote for this ! I hear what your saying , but not everyone is voting conservative and I never have done :(

England isn't the only country English is spoken. If its so bad here why do the people moaning about how awful it is stay here?

One thing I like about the UK is how accepting society generally is. If you look at attitudes towards minorities esp ethnic minorities, UK always comes up tops.

I cannot say the same about our European neighbours. Sweden is not famed for its tolerance of religions like Islam.My friend who left an ultra orthodox sect of Judaism explained it quite well- he said that his insular sect was positively socialist when it came to looking after its members- interest free loans, numerous charity organizations, sponsored weddings, richer families were obliged to help out poorer families. But he says that this kind of selflessness was only possible because their society was homogenous with the same culture/religious beliefs. It United people, gave them a common goal. When he left the religion and entered secular British society, he was more free but also more lonely. People accept him for who he is but generally people give him little help, in fact the people who help him time and time again are orthodox Jewish people.i think this analogy represents the difference between the Nordic model and the Anglo model. Anglo countries tend to be more ethnically and culturally diverse; perhaps it's because English is the foreign language of choice for most people, there are also historic movements due to the legacy of empire. So naturally our societies are more tolerant of diversity but it is also harder for us to be more selfless as a society. That's why Anglo societies with the exception of Canada tends to have a fairly poor safety net. But we do have strong communities and big hearts- when there is someone who needs help that we can personally identify with, we always open our wallets.

Sweden is simply a richer country than ours, so naturally they can afford better social provision.

Sweden GDP $60k per capita, UK $4k1 per capital
Sweden debt 40% of GDP, UK 95% of GDP

If we want a country more like Sweden, we need to be more productive.

in favour of who though 😞

@Perfectlystill

And yet thousands risk their lives every year to come and live here. Weird.

"Better than Somalia" isn't the bar we set ourselves, surely?

In many cases they are escaping from countries far worse than the UK.

There are some fantastic things about the UK however I do think a lot has gone wrong since the 08 financial crisis & we haven't recovered from that. As a middle aged person I think we are completely shafting the younger generations & I don't understand where the "I had gruel for food so you should be grateful" schtick comes from.

I don't have an issue with high taxes as a more equal society is better for all. However high taxes, low growth & shoddy services isn't inspirational.

With the ageing population issue & lack of planning things are only going to get worse.