That her words about the UK really depressed me?

[NaturalScone]

Talking to a Swedish colleague this afternoon, not had much of a chance to in the past and we ended up discussing the news.
She mentioned how peculiar our politics were, how we have such a massive wealth divide (as we all know) with little encouragement for people from all walks of life and backgrounds to have equal opportunities. By this she meant how Uni education is funded over there so nobody is in debt, which means many more young people are able to chase professional careers, without massive debt.
Also, the work ethic, how people in Northern Europe are encouraged to prioritise health and wellbeing as well as work, and how well housing, health, etc work over there.

I stupidly mentioned Boris J and she said he would likely already be sacked or various offences. I also didn't know that many European monarchs had to either self fund (?) or had most of their palaces belonging to the public.

Are we going backwards here? It left me feeling pretty depressed. I see people on here all the time saying we are so lucky here, but I think the bar is set really low compared to much of Europe. And now we are less connected to Europe, many people here only judge our standards by the US, as if the EU is somehow 'foreign'.
It all sounds a bit scary if I think about it, we do seem so easily led by a one-party representational media/press (right). And whilst I am not generally partisan, I do feel weirdly uncomfortable. She even said the tories were set to abolish channel 4 and soon the BBC because they were too neutral. I find that fairly terrifying and wonder where we re headed. I previously considered Brexit an issue of immigration, but to be honest I now wonder if that was a red herring and the true motivation was to get us clear of having to take on EU worker's rights and values.

I usually look for the positives in what we've got, because it feels better than admitting things are that bad, but now I just don't know. And not much I can do about it either!
Something does feel harsher and more divided nowadays, and politicians are able to do anything without fear of reprisal. The UK press is incredibly dire! Do other people see this?

Don't take this the wrong way OP, but surely you knew all that before you spoke to your friend? What can we do about it - I suppose vote differently next time round and hope for the best. Try to concentrate on your own life - too depressing to look at the big picture at the moment.

I'm from a Nordic country but have lived in the UK for 15 years now and I tend to agree with your friend. The way this country is run is pretty backwards, and in some aspects quite shocking too. If I ever mention it to anyone here I'm often asked why I don't go back to my "promised land" if it's so much better, but I have a family here and I know we wouldn't be able to get decent jobs back home due to language issues. Also DC was born here and I don't want to uproot them at this stage.

I like the diversity in the UK though and I have learnt a lot about other cultures during my time here.

😂😂
How many Swedish/Nordic/Finnish people to do you speak to Op? I’m guessing not many.
I have Swedish friends and some family - and this theme is CONSTANT!!! It’s almost become a joke. As a nation they tend toward taking thinking their country is happier, healthier, better…I mean it’s not, at all, by any stretch. Tax is insane, and the cost of living is extortionate. Schools are awful - (it’s not all running in the forest and picking flowers like some would have you believe. It’s endless mucking about in clsssrooms not actually learning to even read a word until 7)
Dont let it depress you! Just big up the stuff you like about the UK! A positive mental attitude does wonders for your mood

I thought it was universally acknowledged that the UK had much lower living standards than Europe, worse health outcomes etc etc. What is depressing is that the UK is regressing still further. I would love to be in a position to leave the UK, my plan is to move to Scotland when it devolves, assuming they will have me

I haven't read the whole thread, but wanted to respond to people pointing out Sweden's higher (32%?) tax rate. Once you combine our 20% basic tax rate with national insurance, it isn't so different from that. National insurance pays for loads of different stuff, it's basically just income tax but by a different name. Plus it's regressive in how it is applied.

As usual there is also more than one poster springing up to inexplicably defend our horrible state of affairs by saying "Ahh... BUT SHE'S LIVING HERE?", as if it's the ultimate gotcha and there aren't a multitude of reasons why people move around for life and work. What a great way to totally ignore the point of the discussion.

Well, Scotland is devolved. Independence, who knows.

England isn't the only country English is spoken. If its so bad here why do the people moaning about how awful it is stay here?

Most don't and for good reason.

Unfortunately Scotland has huge problems. The SNP are awful. And the figures for independence don't add up.

The people telling everyone to leave know perfectly well that many people can't leave, just because of the Brexit vote. Hypocritical bastards - telling people to leave when they voted to stop people from leaving.

Saying, if you don't like it, leave is not at all constructive. It's flouncy and childish. Can we not see where things are failing us and discuss how we might do better? Not necessarily here, but in the wider political discourse.

Exactly this. We pay even more in Denmark. I have no issue with it. I also have no uni debt and no trouble getting to a dentist.

Okay, so to start with - I'm not exactly impressed by the current UK government and its leaders. However, I'd never in a million years listen to a moaning Swede. Many Swedes, even Swedes abroad have this view of Sweden and the "Swedish way" being superior to everyone else. And it's tiring and also inaccurate. In fact, the "Swedish way" is often utterly boring with no room for individuality. Sweden is also the OECD country with the fastest growth (albeit from a low level) in income inequality, and so on.

Oh, and I'm a Swede in the UK who wouldn't dream of moving to Sweden for two reasons - state education and public health care. So much better here.

Yeah... I'm with the Swede on this.

The UK just seems to be racing to the bottom. All this praise for the NHS, lucky to live in the UK? No.

The NHS is on it's knees, the state of education is dire, early years learning needs rehauling completely. Pitiful offering, needs to be subsidised and available to all. For free, or extremely cheap.

None of which is particularly good for women.

The UK is in bits currently but so is Sweden. Terrible schooling, health care is not better than the UK either. Yes, childcare is subsidised, but do you know how horribly large the groups and staff ratios are? Awful. Also, in Sweden you pay high taxes and a patient fee each time you see the GP or specialists. Last time I checked it was about £20. It’s not all it is cracked up to be.
Only difference is swedes are indoctrinated to think Sweden is the best country in the world.

Exactly this. Thank you.

And not if you are one of the poor sods who exceeds the free place quota for your chosen subject.

Absolutely spot on.

I grew up in a North West European country and will say this:

The UK definitely has its issues and in terms of quality of life in general might not do so well in comparison with some European countries. For one I did have to get used to the wealth divide, the old houses, pot holes and the filth on the streets.

Having said that though, the country I grew up in was impossibly bureaucratic for no good reason. I also think the UK generally has a much better community spirit as a whole, but especially towards minorities and the disabled. And of course the NHS. I’d rather stay here for those reasons alone.

I live in Scotland and there is much to love about it but please don't assume it is some magical place compared to England. It is not. Poverty is terrible, alcoholism is rife, drug deaths are the highest in Europe, all but the very lowest paid pay more tax (for no discernable benefit) and educational choices can be very lacking outwith the biggest cities. There is corruption aplenty. Nothing bad that has happened in England politically hasn't also happened here under successive administrations, none of them Tory! All that being said we also have more space, lots of beautiful countryside, less busy roads, miles of incredible beaches, fascinating wildlife, and the majority of the population consists of decent people doing their best.

I previously considered Brexit an issue of immigration, but to be honest I now wonder if that was a red herring and the true motivation was to get us clear of having to take on EU worker's rights and values.

You reckon?
What - Johnson & co LIED about immigration?
You'll be telling us they painted lies on a bus next ...

It is about 50% based on exactly what you surmise OP.
The other 50% being to avoid the then upcoming EU legislation affecting how the uber-rich use offshore tax havens.

So in effect exactly what your Swedish pal surmises - creating a vehicle to make the rich richer, & the poor ever more disadvantaged.
Leading us inexorably to the desired outcome - an asset-stripped UK where the few remaining publicly owned services are hanging on by their teeth (remember dentists, old-timers?!), ordinary workers including those who were comfortably-off but are now joining the ranks of the "just getting by & 3 months with no income will see us on the homeless" masses, & Britain becomes an offshore facility to foreign-owned business. Just like we outsourced to India etc.

This time around, it will be John & Jane working the night shifts, cold calling people in China/Oz/USA, who will be annoyed that the callers are obviously Brits, but are passing themselves off as Jing/Bruce/Chuck ... what nuisances!

Welcome to New Britain, soon to be a renowned banana republic ...

Fair point, but in no way mitigates the current awfulness of UK politics.

A Swedish friend told me that (despite relatively high taxes) everybody pays something for prescriptions ( inc. her dad, who was over 90 at the time), with an annual cap for those who need a lot, plus something for visits to GP and A&E, and ditto towards the ‘board’ element of hospital stays.
Just saying.

Yet I’m sure there would be outrage if any political party proposed any such measures here, even though the NHS is on its knees for want of cash - ‘free at the point of use’ is such a sacred cow. I dare say there’d be outrage on MN.

I don’t suppose any political party would ever dare to suggest it - too afraid of it costing them millions of votes.

Given the state of my country of birth (South Africa), I don't believe the grass is greener anywhere really.

I tend to roll my eyes when people not living somewhere, go on about the virtues of that place. If it's so great, live there. If it's so shit in the UK, you also have options?

The U.K. does have wider inequality than many other European countries. We do have an inflated housing market that means less under 40s are managing to own homes. Public services have been decimated since 2010. I want the U.K. to improve for its citizens and acknowledging the problems is important.