That her words about the UK really depressed me?

[NaturalScone]

Talking to a Swedish colleague this afternoon, not had much of a chance to in the past and we ended up discussing the news.
She mentioned how peculiar our politics were, how we have such a massive wealth divide (as we all know) with little encouragement for people from all walks of life and backgrounds to have equal opportunities. By this she meant how Uni education is funded over there so nobody is in debt, which means many more young people are able to chase professional careers, without massive debt.
Also, the work ethic, how people in Northern Europe are encouraged to prioritise health and wellbeing as well as work, and how well housing, health, etc work over there.

I stupidly mentioned Boris J and she said he would likely already be sacked or various offences. I also didn't know that many European monarchs had to either self fund (?) or had most of their palaces belonging to the public.

Are we going backwards here? It left me feeling pretty depressed. I see people on here all the time saying we are so lucky here, but I think the bar is set really low compared to much of Europe. And now we are less connected to Europe, many people here only judge our standards by the US, as if the EU is somehow 'foreign'.
It all sounds a bit scary if I think about it, we do seem so easily led by a one-party representational media/press (right). And whilst I am not generally partisan, I do feel weirdly uncomfortable. She even said the tories were set to abolish channel 4 and soon the BBC because they were too neutral. I find that fairly terrifying and wonder where we re headed. I previously considered Brexit an issue of immigration, but to be honest I now wonder if that was a red herring and the true motivation was to get us clear of having to take on EU worker's rights and values.

I usually look for the positives in what we've got, because it feels better than admitting things are that bad, but now I just don't know. And not much I can do about it either!
Something does feel harsher and more divided nowadays, and politicians are able to do anything without fear of reprisal. The UK press is incredibly dire! Do other people see this?

OP, genuinely interested in the point others raised about why she chooses to live in this dystopia that is the UK? Is she on the run from Swedish authorities? Or are you all in an echo chamber saying things each other wants to hear. I will never understand what’s keeping people who are so depressed about the state of the country, here. Especially if they have a right to live elsewhere.

@BeerLoas well I can tell you why I immigrated to the UK and my home country is much richer than the UK! I don't pretend the UK has a better quality of life than my home country cos it's not true. Ditto for my German MIL. She says British people are much nicer and she likes london. I love London too, that's one reason I stayed. But another reason is my parents were not supportive of our relationship and in fact outright hostile at the start so I found it easier to start my married life in UK..

Also for the people who do immigrate for economic reasons, the quality of life isn't such a big factor if all you want to do is earn money. I would say that the barriers of entry to getting an entry level job are lower in the UK, particularly if you have contacts from your community. If you are frugal and work hard, you can do quite well, look at all the eastern Europeans who bought houses and set up businesses here's and their kids are also very driven. That does not mean their lives are comfortable. Far from it! But they are building their financial security and the fact the healthcare isn't very good and the social safety net isn't good doesn't really matter if you are young healthy ambitious and economically productive with a ton of energy. Of course not everyone is built to be like that. And the UK is a miserable place to be if you aren't healthy and hardworking.

The problems facing this country won't be fixed in a single Labour term. Short-termism is a big problem for the UK.

agree, there's never any long planning which is very much needed.

We are living in Copenhagen for last 18 months and go over to Sweden regularly-- she is pretty accurate I'm afraid. We are back to uk next month for various work and family reasons and it is a bit chalk and cheese.

Denmark and Sweden are quite similar in many ways so here's my take on it

Higher wages (about 30% more) £14 an hr minimum wage. Very high tax- (46%) but high services and no NI or council tax. Preschool Childcare is around1/3 of UK , public transport about 1/3 cheaper and way better. Lots more high quality social housing of all kinds. Far more couples are dual income because it pays to work due to affordable childcare most people speak great English plusDanish and often German too. I've seen very little homelessness and it's very ordered and clean . Fairly Large amounts of non EU immigration but pretty well integrated. Superb bin collections and recycling. Lots of security in tenancies -All in all a bit like a giant Waitrose population. So people bring home about the same, but have access to cheaper childcare, higher pensions and far more social housing-- so consequently feel better off!!

This would take a huge mindset change in UK-- many with no kids and not earning higher salaries might well feel resentful and ostentatious displays of wealth are frowned on.

Negative sides
Beaurocratic
Lots of understaffing
Impossible to speak to any call centre after 3.00pm -- customer service is negligible
Nearly impossible to own or run a car
Very harsh immigration options if non EU
6 months deposit to rent- 3 months deposit and 3 months upfront rent. (Sweden is actually much less, more like UK)
You have to sand all floors and paint throughout if you leave.

You also see far less disabled people around with motability scooters etc -- it's noticeable . I have absolutely no idea why this is , diet, healthcare , less stress ?

This is just pure horseshit, if you do actually have a friend from sweden they could point you to the swedish forums that are currently complaining about the grenade attacks in places like Malmo and saying they have become more extreme, no swedish forums are even comparing the UK, the only time the UK came up was in response to there not implimenting mask mandate and 'let it rip' policy and the middle class left abandoming them.

There is real problems that they are facing internally that comparisons are being made to actually not being like us in terms of immigration etc, and that is coming from the left in sweden.

This cloaked anti tory/pro nordic stance is just showing how little you know about the true current situation in Sweden and many other Nordic countries whilst also trying to show horn in some anti Tory rant whilst pretending we are a backwater.

This fake friend you have, would have told you the wharts and all and you wouldn't be ashamed to mention BJ, you need to up you're uninformed shilling and maybe get up to date on recent swedish politics.

I think the bar you missed was ‘better than France, Germany, Italy’, since they likely crossed those countries to get here.

The public do benefit from the palaces, the royal family gave them over in return for taking an income from the Crown Estates, the remainder of the income goes to the Treasury. The Royal Family receive 25% currently but the majority pays for the refurbishments to the palace. The remaining £257 million last year went to the Treasury.

Not for anyone, places are capped and so participation in University by lower socio-economic groups is lower in Scotland than in England. Not to mention the Scottish Universities haven't had the same injection of cash that the English Universities have had and so there has been an impact on quality.

There may be an element of comparing apples with oranges. The way the “disadvantaged” students are measured in Scotland differs. Strange to say quality is lower when the vast majority of Scotland’s universities are consistently at the upper end of the league tables.

I think the bar you missed was ‘better than France, Germany, Italy’, since they likely crossed those countries to get here.

Except the numbers who do that is tiny compared to those who do not pass those countries to get here.

Also for the people who do immigrate for economic reasons, the quality of life isn't such a big factor if all you want to do is earn money.

Agree, it's not rocket science that some immigrants want to make money in the UK, how many end up staying long term?

I think the bar you missed was ‘better than France, Germany, Italy’, since they likely crossed those countries to get here

All of which take far more immigrants than the UK does. All of which have official legal routes for asylum and refugee claims. A very vocal element in the UK want to play the victim card when it comes to numbers of asylum seekers and refugees arriving in the the UK, but these same elements are gaslighting and have been playing the cold-hearted bastard card for years.

Spot on.

@sst1234 oh I can understand why you wouldn't want to be in France or Germany as a refugee. Germany has ID cards which you need to show to get employment. Here in the UK, its easier to get cash in hand employment. From a survival point of view, it's easier to be in the UK. They probably have more relatives here too. Probably speak some English too.

But none of this really makes the UK a better place to live in for a born and bred local.

You also see far less disabled people around with motability scooters etc -- it's noticeable . I have absolutely no idea why this is , diet, healthcare , less stress ?

People aren’t disabled because of stress and diet. 🙄

Number of disabled people in Denmark =16%
Number of disabled people in Sweden = 20%
Number of disabled people in U.K. = 18%

I frequently go to Malmo- it does have some social issues but they are extremely localised even the police say that - same here in Copenhagen. I've never felt remotely threatened there but don't go to the iffy bits- the main central part is lovely it's like saying you wouldn't go to Bristol because there's been gang issues in dodgy bits.

I guess the most shameful thing you felt was that you didn't have a fecking clue about their politics. And why should you. Sweden - yeah, nil points. They just don't register. Don't let her bother you. Let her carry on ranting.

A very vocal element in the UK want to play the victim card when it comes to numbers of asylum seekers and refugees arriving in the the UK, but these same elements are gaslighting and have been playing the cold-hearted bastard card for years.

To be fair, the costal areas which are being forced to deal with refugees are finding it difficult. There is a policy problem which means the rest of the U.K. largely isn’t doing its bit.

www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220420-riots-over-koran-burning-test-swedish-tolerance

It seems a bit of a modem trope that Sweden is a particular utopia, and I’m sure it isn’t in many ways. Whilst I agree politically with Swedish values on a broad sense (high taxes to pay for state funded education and healthcare), I don’t think the comparison is quite that simple. On the other hand, what you Swedish friend points out is true to some extent. There is no point in getting sad about it though. We need to try to build some kind of acceptable opposition (I don’t mind labour but it doesn’t seem to be working) and/or try to get the voting public to see things differently.

Oh and @Justanotherlurker DH family is Tory- they think UK is a complete shitshow . I can't believe how much FIL thought copenhagen and stockholm were a world ahead-- - he has had a complete mind change. No one is doubting their are some good things about the UK but they are being buried in very poor decision making

It's good to hear people from elsewhere casting a critical eye over standards of living in the UK. If you travel enough you get to know where the quality of life is better and where it's worse. No point being defensive - just information to assess for validity and maybe push to level up to countries where the quality of living is better.......and not just look at levelling up within the UK.

Its clear this country has a lot to do to improve things for the majority.

@CharityShopChic

Did she also say that Swedes pay one of the highest levels of tax in the world? 32% basic rate income tax?

Yes but they have absolutely fantastic pensions, childcare, education and health. We don't have any of those things.

For clarification when I asked about immigration I wasn't meaning refugees, perhaps I worded it poorly.

The people I know are from France, Germany, Sweden, India, Bulgaria, Greece, Japan, Argentina etc. and have a made a conscious choice to be in the UK as a career and family move, they are not fleeing political persecution. High levels of education (doctors, scientists, other professionals) so perhaps it is just pure economics and they want to earn money. I don't get the sense it is. Interesting.

ID cards & more checks makes other European countries less appealing than the UK.

Sweden does some things very well.

But I think people sometimes miss the extent to which their society is very homogeneous, and I don't mean just in terms of diversity characteristics, but people tend to want to be more "samey". I don't want to sound like I am being too extreme with that statement, but it is a different feel culturally, and I am not sure that a lot of British people would feel quite at home with that.

That's not just a matter of pro/con, but I think it relates to some of the ways in which we perceive them as better. You can do some things in a different way if there is more tendency towards acting for the group or giving way to the collective thinking of the group. But when you place more weight on that, standing out and thinking differently can also be more difficult.