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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Colleague permanently off sick

303 replies

Littlejuice · 19/04/2022 06:41

Colleague at work, forever coming to work for a fortnight then being signed off for a month or 6 weeks with anxiety - there is always something : currently it is her boyfriends uncle died, last time it was her cat died, time before she was upset about her boyfriend not proposing when they went on a holiday where she was convinced he would propose

Team I work in all sick of it. Have got to the stage where we just never expect her to be in and cover her work, but genuinely now getting so pissed off

Said colleague has been off for 3 weeks currently as she can't cope, but has plastered.many many pictures all over Facebook this weekend of various parties, BBQ, trips out. Rest of us working extra on call shifts to cover her because she's too stressed to work

I know I'm being judgemental, I know I am, but has made me rage - surely at some point she just has to accept life has its challenges, come to work like the rest of us?

OP posts:
Doodar · 19/04/2022 10:45

hate shirkers like this, she needs managing out of the business.

daisychain01 · 19/04/2022 10:46

@LetHimHaveIt

I fully, fully agree with you *@Littlejuice*, but you'll get your arse handed to you on here, where it's apparently fine to have huge swathes of time off for the most nebulous of reasons.
Let's be clear about this, it is not OK to take multiple random periods of sick leave off to "mourn the cat" or "be upset with boyfriend for not proposing", ultimately leaving one's colleagues in the lurch and forced to work excessive hours at no extra pay to cover the work not getting done by the absent colleague. Taking the OP situation on face value, which is all we can do, it looks like the hallmarks of someone swinging the lead and not taking their work obligation seriously.

What is not OK, is vilifying a colleague off sick if you see them walking down the high street, having their hair cut, visiting a friend, or even attending a social event. They don't have to lock themselves away to suffer in solitary confinement, if they are signed off sick. They need to regain their health inc MH, sufficient to get back to work.

The fly in the ointment that adds to the mix is the feckless use of social media to brag about being on a beach holiday. Have the holiday, just quit the ridiculous need to rub people's nose in it.

The trouble with these "sick colleague" situations on MN is that we have no way of validating that the facts are being accurately described, thus leading to the lazy generalisations of where it's apparently fine to have huge swathes of time off for the most nebulous of reasons accusations which are clearly ridiculous and not what is being said.

custardbear · 19/04/2022 10:48

Your work needs to manage her, and provide ways support for the rest of the team

SolasAnla · 19/04/2022 10:49

[quote RosesAndHellebores]@SolasAnla your post has really annoyed me. I am in a very senior HR role. It is not HR's role to manage. It is HR's role to provide appropriate guidance in accordance with policy and procedure to enable managers to manage. All too often that guidance is given and managers do diddly squat and then blame it on HR.

It is not HR's role to facilitate a temp, ie, to have the procured agencies in place and a system for approvals. It is up to the manager to get it approved. It is likely only to be approved if there is budget for it or it is evident the absence is having a detrimental impact on the operational needs of the business and can't reasonably be covered by existing staff.[/quote]
@RosesAndHellebores you work in Human Resource Management.

Recruiting, Retension, and Removal.

If your company have recruited managers who do diddly squat on managing their team resources could it be that the HR managers need to up their game and make sure that the recruitment process look at human management skill sets?
Set recruitment questions like how would you manage OP's situation. And yes HR should be active in managing long term sick as the company need to decide to manage on either a Retension or a Removal basis because as you point out some managers don't follow company policy. What's the cost implication for managing a discrimination claim?

And if HR is not concerned with the missing hours how will the Retension bit go with other team members. Are there HR risks over stress and people quitting. If the manager wont manage the sickness and wont manage the work displacement, what's the cost implication for loss of experieced workers and managing additional claims?

If a manager is doing diddly squat should HR be looking at retraining or even removal of incompetent managers.
Because policy is about how employee's do their job. If HR policy is wrong it needs to be changed. But if employee's dont follow policy they are not doing their jobs.

I presume that you added in the word not in error?

It is not HR's role to facilitate a temp, ie, to have the procured agencies in place and a system for approvals.

HR need to be involved in quality control from the Recruitment to the end or HRM can be covered by whoever writes the legal and operational policy.

or it is evident the absence is having a detrimental impact on the operational needs of the business and can't reasonably be covered by existing staff.

Contingency or catastrophe planning should involve HR. Key roles, succession, minimum cover all require HR input on availability of inhouse or external staff/role skills.
Failing to retain the existing staff usually has a detrimental impact.
Advice given here will always be first stop doing the work then look for a new job.

It is up to the manager to get it approved.

So yes apologies point 2 should have focused on the direct line manager with HR acting in the background.
2) HR Management are not providing the cover

HR can position to clean up mismanagement or to proactively manage to prevent it.

RachelGreeneGreep · 19/04/2022 10:52

@custardbear

Your work needs to manage her, and provide ways support for the rest of the team
This is it in a nutshell.

It's a management problem and as long as everyone else is picking up the slack, nothing will be done.

caringcarer · 19/04/2022 10:54

I was upset when my cat died but still had to go to work. I had him from a little kitten too. Your colleague is not suited to the job if she can't cope with life events and work. You should speak to HR about putting more stress on rest of the team. Very unfair. Warn they are risking MH problems for all by frequency of additional work. I suppose she gets paid company sick pay if working or on sick leave. You find if people not paid anything more that statuary sick pay, if off sick they tend to go to work unless really unwell. I would friend on Facebook.

daisychain01 · 19/04/2022 10:54

@Littlejuice the sick colleague's line manager should enact the company's sickness absence policy, with the required back to work conversations. It will get to the stage where their absence record looks like a car crash and they can be taken down the capability route, as they are clearly not able to meet their side of the employment contract. If their line manager is unwilling to ensure the colleague is abiding by policy that's a whole different matter, and you being resentful and judgemental about it won't make any difference.

All you can do is continue doing your job as best you can, and try not to let it distract you or affect your own performance.

And believe me, I have seen this behaviour numerous times in the past, and it ends up with the employee eventually leaving, normally within the year, when they've exhausted their sickness allowance and have been absent for so long, they cannot keep up with the demands of the role.

Babyroobs · 19/04/2022 10:59

Your employers need to sort this out and manage her sickness. In the meantime I'm afraid you'll just have to cover for her. As others have said there's likely to be other stuff going on too.

caecilius1 · 19/04/2022 11:08

For once, I actually with @RosesAndHellebores on something.

The OP and her other colleagues, if they feel similarly, need to approach their line manager. If their LM fobs off, then you approach the LM's LM and so on until something is done.
Management do all the necessary liaison with HR for any disciplinaries & dismissals etc. it is not for the OP to contact HR unless OP is this person's LM, which I doubt very much.

SpottyPantsNextDoor · 19/04/2022 11:08

It does sound like she may be playing the system but if she is then her doctors etc are enabling her. That said, you don’t know what’s actually going on, something awful could have happened to her that she’s struggling to deal with. It’s basically none of your business. By all means speak to your manager about the extra pressure it’s putting you under though.

ImNotDancing · 19/04/2022 11:08

I’ve just come back off a long period off with long Covid symptoms. I went out as often as I bloody could as it helps! I also posted on Facebook if I was doing something I wanted to share! I hope my colleagues weren’t as nasty about me as you are

BigFatLiar · 19/04/2022 11:10

@Quincythequince

No it doesn’t matter Quebec not more than any other random post on MN matters to many of us I suppose.

But I’m interested to know the sector. I would bet £100 it’s public.

I've worked both public and private, public had much more rigorous sick procedures which were applied to everyone. Private was a lot more wishy washy and relaxed about it especially if you were in with the management or HR. Both however have to comply with the appropriate legislation.
caringcarer · 19/04/2022 11:12

My mil used to work in a care home cooking for residents. There were 2 of them and they worked on rota system. One person had to go in Xmas day every year and also NY day. My mil worked there 17 years and had to work on Xmas day and NY day 15 years running. 2 years after she started working there they got new co chef. Every year she got a GP note for back pain about 3 days before Xmas and for 2 weeks off work resting. This happened every year. My poor mil was forced to go in on Xmas day because she said someone has to cook residents Xmas dinner. After about 5 years she complained to management who said nothing they could do as she had a sick note.

Stabbitystabstab · 19/04/2022 11:14

We have a drip of a manager that has time off sick constantly for ridiculous reasons.
We no longer have her back.
We extend her the same respect she gives us.
I have no time for spurious sickness.
I say this as someone that had 3 months off to recover from an accident.
I just wasn't a dick about it and helped where I could.

lljkk · 19/04/2022 11:18

I know someone who has long stints off work due to mental illness... one thing she never worries about is how the time off will make her job insecure. Local govt job. I can't imagine being off work so much and not being scared to lose my job, even though I'm public sector too. I suppose I should have realised years ago how severely ill she is, maybe only just staying out of hospital each time.

Quincythequince · 19/04/2022 11:18

More Rigorous perhaps bigfat but also a lot more generous too.

Easy to be generous with taxpayers money, rather than company profits.

On another note, my friend is a GP, he gets so much stick for not signing people off long term.

The entitlement to be given repeated notes, with no decent reason, is staggering he said.

And heya pretty empathetic guy generally, so they just be taking the piss.

caecilius1 · 19/04/2022 11:19

@SolasAnla
It's implied by the OP that this is an NHS Trust healthcare setting.

What you've written in your latest post is absolutely not how HR works in an NHS Trust and I'd be astonished if it worked like that in other industries.

You do realise that a HR rep doesn't have to sit into a recruitment interview? Even if a HR person is present at the interview, they're only there to make sure process is followed. I have never known a HR rep to ask questions at any interview I've attended . I've been to quite a few interviews in a 30y practising career.

Flickflak · 19/04/2022 11:20

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RosesAndHellebores · 19/04/2022 11:26

@SolasAnla wherever you work I wonder if there is an Employee Assistance Programme available to help you with your anger management? I shall assume you didn't mean to be so rude.

C8H10N4O2 · 19/04/2022 11:32

If your company have recruited managers who do diddly squat on managing their team resources could it be that the HR managers need to up their game and make sure that the recruitment process look at human management skill sets?

I've no idea where you have worked that HR run the company but I've never seen it.

HR can provide the policies but there is little they can do without the management doing their jobs. Its not their job to remove management either - its the senior managers' responsibility to manage performance and staffing and HR support as required with managing cases raised and advising on policy and compliance for individual cases.

However I'm sure many actual HR staff would love to know where they can work without needing the input of lackluster management layers.

Babyroobs · 19/04/2022 11:33

@Mindymomo

You and your team need to tell your Manager how you feel, it needs to be addressed urgently. Where my DS works, there was someone like this, yes she had a drink problem and was off every Monday and then extended periods. They did go through the process of verbal warning, 2 written warnings and then they sacked her. The trouble is now she’s gone, the Company now only pays 5 days sick pay per year and there’s no weekend overtime if you’ve been off sick the previous week.
The overtime issue is fair enough though. I used to work in the NHS and people would be off sick ( paid in full for the first six months) on their normal working days then a few days later offer to do overtime and be paid time and be paid overtime rate ! If you've been ill then you should take time to recover and not be doing extra hours.
C8H10N4O2 · 19/04/2022 11:35

[quote PAFMO]@Littlejuice

In your previous threads you say you work as a senior manager in the public sector and in an ITU of a hospital.

As a senior manager are you then somehow part of the line management for the absent person?

Are other HCPs brought in to cover the absence (presumably in ITU also?) Or are you saying that people in the NHS aren't being paid to cover shifts?[/quote]
So the OP is the SM responsible for managing this person's performance, raising any issues with HR and maintaining discretion over the reasons?

Or perhaps the previous post was less that totally accurate and this is the same.

Whilst you are at it OP, check with HR for the organisation's policy on use of social media to discuss staff.

Must be hours since we had a deletion for threads which were "outing".

SolasAnla · 19/04/2022 11:36

[quote RosesAndHellebores]@SolasAnla wherever you work I wonder if there is an Employee Assistance Programme available to help you with your anger management? I shall assume you didn't mean to be so rude.[/quote]
@RosesAndHellebores

Personalised attack from a very senior HR role.
Shocked.
Your post has really annoyed me.

Babyroobs · 19/04/2022 11:38

[quote caecilius1]@SolasAnla
It's implied by the OP that this is an NHS Trust healthcare setting.

What you've written in your latest post is absolutely not how HR works in an NHS Trust and I'd be astonished if it worked like that in other industries.

You do realise that a HR rep doesn't have to sit into a recruitment interview? Even if a HR person is present at the interview, they're only there to make sure process is followed. I have never known a HR rep to ask questions at any interview I've attended . I've been to quite a few interviews in a 30y practising career.[/quote]
I went to an NHS interview a few weeks ago and the HR representative on the panel seemed to be taking the lead on most of the questioning.

Hiphophippityskip1 · 19/04/2022 11:39

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