To think this meeting is too far to travel to?

[Martha5983]

I joined a new team at work during the lockdown. The team live all over the UK.

A 2 hour face to face meeting and lunch has been arranged in May. I’m only allowed overnight accommodation in very specific circumstances- for example if I complete a site visit the following day. It starts at 11.30 to ‘allow travel on the day’. The journey will be 6 hours - meaning that to attend the meeting I’ll need to be on a train at 5:30 - probably up at around 4am. Journey home will mean I am home around 10pm. I don’t have a company car and my normal working week is 9-3 four days a week.

It’s in the middle of my daughters SATS week - so I’m not keen on an overnight for that reason.

I feel pressured to go because it’s important for team building and on the basis that I’ve worked from home and travelled minimally for the last few years. I don’t mind being flexible with my working pattern. But even before covid the max travel I’ve done in one day would have been a journey of around 2 hours.

AIBU to say that this journey is unreasonable and that I’ll join remotely or will I risk looking like I’m not a team player and miss out on the face to face contact?

Norwich to Manchester?! Jeez, yes of course YABU. With all the drama and the talk of SATs being affected I thought it would be much further than that.

As you say, there's even a through train, so once you're on it you can relax, drink coffee, catch up with emails etc. You've been given loads of notice and it's hardly a difficult journey.

If this was me, and work were paying for it, I'd honestly be looking forward to the opportunity to rest!

Sorry - just to be exact - 4 hours 45 mins.

@SheWoreYellow

SATS are to measure the school, not your child, no matter what your school is telling you. I’d take that out of the equation.

While I agree that the journey is ridiculous for a 2 hour meeting SATS are irrelevant and the fact you cite it as a reason makes me worried you are turning SATS into a big thing for your child.

I don’t think this is unreasonable as a one-off and my gut feeling is that you should make the effort to attend.

I live in Edinburgh and some of my clients are in London, and about once or twice a month I have to get up at four-something am in order to get a six-something flight from EDI. (I’m self-employed so I have to just suck it up ultimately.) It’s part-and-parcel of how we work now. Only people in very specific jobs in very specific industries have the luxury (or is it punishment!?!) of being able to be 100% online.

How about arranging a site visit earlier on the day of the meeting, or for the day after, so that you can take advantage of the overnight accommodation policy?

The EMR takes 4h 41, it can't take you an hour to get to Norwich station surely?

I once had to go to a training session that started at 9am to 5pm 4 hours drive from home, at the English HO. I did do it but the next time they asked me I refused and ended up being allowed to go to the Scottish HO session, 1.5hr drive away. I think being expected to drive that amount on top of a working day is very unreasonable but only you know whether your company will do anything about it.

@Hoppinggreen SATs are far from irrelevant. Many secondary school use as a basis for streaming the children.

To be fair we don’t know whether OP lives in Norwich to start with. Norfolk is a pretty large and rural county and journeys can take ages.

When we have meeting like this the people who live furthest away always stay over the night before or after even with timings like that, it's far too long otherwise! Ask about maximum allowable travel for it and be clear on the timings. I'd be seriously surprised if an exception couldn't be made.

On the sats front, I'd be torn. I think they've given you plenty of notice to arrange childcare and so you should be making every effort to attend or roaming losing a lot of goodwill for team members who would be making the effort for you. The time to speak up it's when the meeting is being discussed - it's so simple to suggest the week after then.

Still irrelevant in terms of the OP catching a train though, @safelysoftly

@Martha5983

Thank you for all the comments - really useful to get different views - I appreciate it.

When I say 6 hours I’m talking door to door - it’s a cross country train journey of 5 hours - Norwich to Manchester - lots of stops but thankfully no changes if I time it right. My car is a 10 year old fiat so I wouldn’t be brave enough to take it on such a long journey and frankly it wouldn’t be very comfortable!

To be honest, I think that's a bit feeble, my car is 14 years old, not particularly comfortable and I regularly do 6 or 7 hours driving in one day for work, much if it on bad Irish roads. I do get expenses but would do the trip you propose without given how rare it is, how much the job suits you otherwise etc. You can either be the 'wow, you've had a long trip, great you're here' woman or the 'oh she couldn't make it, she will join us via zoom AGAIN' woman. I know which I'd rather be.

Is there an alternative train route that avoids the stop-everywhere cross-country and gets you onto an intercity line?

Have you asked the organisers what they think?

It will be a long day.

That sort of thing happens.

If you don't go, whatever the rights or wrongs, yes, you'll be seen as the one who won't attend meetings f2f because it's a long day.

I did Exeter to Colchester last week. Similar timings - nice train. Booked seats, settled down and read for the first time in months. No big deal. I didn't have to do it every day. I'll probably never have to do it again. Ever. My meeting lasted about 4 hours all told. I met people, talked to people.

I think this is the trade off for getting remote working imo. I am off to London for a team onside.(I do hybrid work at a local office in Cheshire but our team is over 3 sites in London, Cheshire and Glasgow).

They are paying travel, I am getting a 6.30 train and have decided to pay for my own accommodation so I can socialise with our colleagues that evening and will get 2 days in the London office.

Personally I think that yabu, it is part of remote working and they are.accomodating a late start allow travel.

If it would be easier to drive could you ask to hire a reliable car for the day? My OH work requires long trips on occasion an allow hire cars if there are issues with employees not owning or having unreliable cars. I'm assuming the long trip back is due to poor train connections?

Wait, are you not supposed to drive long distances in cars over 10 years old? Why not? I've got a 2005 polo that we frequently do 6hr trips in.

Do you even have trains at 5.30? The earliest train where I live (near London) is at 6.15.

@Martha5983

Yes I do live somewhere remote - but the company I work for has offices all over the UK including within half an hour of where I live.

How are the other people based at this office getting to the meeting?

It really depends on your industry and expectations regarding teamwork. To me, this is not unreasonable at all. I used to do this kind of thing on a weekly basis. Train to Paris at stupid-o'clock, back in the evening. Flight to Frankfurt or wherever, ditto. But I knew when I signed up that this was part of the job, and I was remunerated accordingly.

As a one off, I wouldn't make a song and dance about it. Instead focus on the positives of actually meeting and interacting with the rest of the team. The lunch may turn out to be the most important part of the trip, and you can't really do that via zoom. Plus the little interactions here and there throughout the day.

I'd suggest you insist on staying overnight the night before. SATs aren't a big deal, so that shouldn't in itself be a reason for not staying.

It completely depends on your contract/what was discussed when you started the role.

Your daughters SATs are completely irrelevant.

I've done day trips to mainland Europe numerous times for 1 or 2 hour meetings so I can't say I'm sympathetic. It's a one off.

According to Google Maps the car journey would take about 10 minutes less time with no traffic, absolutely not worth it. Parking at Norwich station is, but I presume that's included.

@maddening - are you sure your employer wouldn't fund your hotel room? Many would in the situation you describe, because it benefits the company for everyone to socialise.

I think you need to go, but just tell them you need an overnight.

Why don't you go the day before and stay in a Travel Lodge then? It's not going to break the bank. A quick Google shows £28 for a central Manchester TL.

YABU suggesting that you can't go - lots of people have early starts for work much more frequently than this! (I'm not saying it's great, because I know how knackering it is, but it is a fact of life for many). And the SATS issue isn't relevant for one night.

You can either be the 'wow, you've had a long trip, great you're here' woman or the 'oh she couldn't make it, she will join us via zoom AGAIN' woman. I know which I'd rather be

This basically.