work trip not what it seemed :/

[biokult]

Accepted a job of which international travel was involved, was very lucky in that I had a couple offers, which I turned down for my current position. Country is considered unsafe, however the insitute I would be based at is in a tourist-y area which is why I was comfortable agreeing.

Things have been very rushed due to lack of staff, and feel like my queries are not being answered.

My current dilemna is thus: a member of the team mentioned they would be based at a certain site, which was not the area I had expected to working in. I would then be expected to commute there via taxi, or "maybe collegues can drop you". I said no problem, assuming that if it was part of their company the area would also be fine.

Have since looked up the area and it is dodgy AF, yougov strongly recommend avoiding this and similar neighbourhoods. If you must go there you should have a local guide/security. Cabs will often refuse to pick you up from there due to high crime rate. I do not want to rely on collegues I do not for lifts in case they let me down and I am stuck.

I have agreed to the trip, although had this detail been made clear I would've said no. I feel like no precuations have been put in place, or discussed with me.

Please help me navigate this. My sister & her partner (who I live with) are being incredibly unhelpful, telling me to quit on the spot and no job is worth my life or being assualted etc etc. Obviously this is true, but I also want to maintain good working relationships and ideally not be unemployed!

Pretty pissed off tbh, anyone been in similar situations?

Fascinating thread! Unless you're Carrie Mathison, don't go

OP I've don't a LOT of foreign travel fir my job the last 7 years or so... had similar situations. Is it just 1 colleague at this site ? Are you only going there for them or for their entire team or more ? If its just for them, suggest they come to the main site you will be based at. You d travelled from the UK, they know need to travel within Mexico. I've done this many times and mostly people were agreeable. You have some decidionmaking power here even if it doesn't feel that way. If it's an entire team that u need to see, not just a colleague- ask yourself if the meet up can be done virtually successfully. If you feel unsafe, quote the travel advice on gov website. Any reputable company that requires people to travel will and should have an immigration team who organises visas and travel or similar and will be clued up on travel advice and precautions- I would Ask HR for their details. For example when I was in Mexico City the advice was only to use company approved taxis, however when I went to monterrey Mexico, advice was different and i travelled with colleagues who picked me up. Take matters into your own hands here and find that immigration team- if they don't have one I'd be surprised and slightly worried but in that case you absolutely should and have to follow the gov advice, also for any benefits the company provide you with like medical etc. Otherwise I'd be worried its not valid if you don't follow official advice. Go take the bull by the horns and have fun !!

Dp travels (travelled, not since March 2020!) a lot, he goes where the site is not where the tourists are, this can be in an iffy country, a dodgy neighbourhood but his hotel is always reputable and secure, he eats at the hotel if a less than secure situation. He usually has a car and driver in situations which are less than ideal (he'll rent a car in most countries though). Did they know you couldn't drive, they may have assumed and forgot to put it on the job spec, I suggest you learn, not for this trip but very useful for jobs with travel.

All that said, Mexico is ok, yes don't go wandering around alone at night but taking a pre arranged vehicle is fine. If you are nervous going onto site I would reevaluate having a job with travel, industrial sites are never city centre

I wouldn’t necessarily see being told to do your own risk assessment as a bad thing. You’ve got tons of good advice here. Someone even gave you a pointer on how to get a risk assessment for the specific region you’re being asked to go to in Mexico. Also ask for risk assessments from people you know going similar work. Put all advice together and you’ll have your own perfect risk assessment quoting the FO’s advice & stats too. You will actually be in a better position to say you’re not prepared to go till those security measures are in place.

I was born in South America (not Mexico). I left when I was 17 and have been living in the UK for 36 years. When I got to my birth country and the area I used to live, the locals know the second I open my mouth that I don’t live locally. Like is most if not all countries, each area also has different accents.

People living in extremely poor areas (especially those who are uneducated) think that anyone who lives abroad is automatically a multi billionaire and will therefore be kidnapping targets. This is why the risk to foreigners is different to the locals.

I recommend you watch Narcos (still available on Netflix). It shows how people struggling financially (in the absence of a benefits system) will in desperation agree to do jobs that puts them and their families in danger.

Anyone travelling abroad (whether for work or personal travels), should research the dangers in the areas they’re going to. Some areas are safe during the day but not at night. Some areas are a total no go area for foreigners. This advise must be strictly adhered to to reduce the risk.

As other people said, sounds like it wasn’t your line manager who suggested you go that that area. It may have been suggested by someone who doesn’t realise there’s a difference in risk between the locals and any foreigners.

I also think that you can now achieve a lot more over Zoom/Teams etc, though of course it only works with certain jobs.

Good luck in your new job

I wouldn't want to go in a trio like this. Fingers crossed it gets sorted for you after the Easter break.

Watch Narcos and do your own risk assessment? Bloody hell.

The facts are that the nature of the travel are not what op expected/was led to believe, the organisation doesn’t have even the basics of security in place and the op appears to be uncomfortable speaking to anyone about her concerns. Each one of these is a red flag.

The most dangerous place I’ve gone to for work was somewhere stray dogs around the site had been judged a risk and so specific advice about walking around was given - op, this is the level rigorous organisations go to.

The more I read this thread, the more I think the situation is crazy in itself, as is the way some posters seem to be very gung-ho about it.

If the company does not provide a well informed, actionable, risk assessment surely its breaching employment law?
No expert but health and safety, duty of care?
Wonder if saying a risk assessment needed to be done meant by them rather than you. Seems crazy otherwise and a definite no from me.
Would consider going if happy with their risk assessment and package to keep you safe.
But... The shambolic and disrespectful, disgusting tbh attitude to my personal safety (seems at best an afterthought) would put me off working for company.

Seriously do not write your own risk assessment! Just scrolled up.
Your company has to pay for actioning it. Your safety, extra insurance etc is their responsibility. Surely they have done this for staff at the Mexican site?
They should be warning of risks and plans in place to mitigate them before even offering the role in a new location.
Your job description only stated safer location in Mexico. Tbh even then would have expected security to be mentioned.

You mention your sister. If you were my daughter I'd be furious at your employer.

OP tbh I resigned from a job years ago because of a similar scenario and that was just in our local city (which has a very nasty area that I was expected to work very late and alone in). I offered so many other reasonable adaptations and was clearly motivated to work, but refused for my personal security concerns. They pulled out the it's in your contract line with a veiled threat that I'd be sacked if I didn't do what they told me to so I resigned. At the end of the day, if something bad had happened to me it would have been a thousand times worse than dealing with being unemployed for a period of time. Different posters will have different views on this but personally I with your sister.

Hope you can get answers from LM or HR and whatever decision you make, it'll be the right one for you. Stay safe if you go.

I would steer well clear of this. Your employer should have very clear policies and procedures around travel and the protection of their staff and be included in the Terms and Conditions of your letter of appointment. It should not be left up to the employee to have to make their own arrangements to ensure thay can travel safely.

It would be wise if you were to have a formal discussion with your employer and ensure that there are ground rules and that they as your employer will ensure that safe travel and accommodation arrangements are in place before you undertake any business travel.

DH travels to some countries that have dangerous areas. In the safer cities he is allowed to take taxis, in less safe places he has an armoured vehicle made to look scruffy from the outside with an armed driver and an armoured guard with a Kalashnikov. On some routes they do a radio check in with base every 5 minutes.

I'd want to be very confident that my company had security properly in hand before I agreed to leave a safer area OP.

Look at it this way: aren't you putting the cart before the horse? Unless you have been given specifics (when you are leaving, when you are returning, and so forth) you can then bring all this up with management. Until then, you still have a job to show up for every day, and a paycheque coming in. Wait until the company says 'Go or Quit" before worrying about the future.

edited to add: my intent was to help you create a little space between you and this anxiety. Unless you need to be preparing for a specific trip with a specific date, then relax. Don't worry about it until you need to. Use this thread to help draw up some questions you will want to ask when your company does want you to go, and then let it go, as worrying about it now will not make it suck any less once you do have to deal with it.

I travel to dangerous developing countries as part of my job. Every employer is different. We don't have formal risk assessments the way some have explained on here but we take insurance v seriously and because we have people on the ground, we know what to arrange.

First of all, even if you could drive, never drive yourself in any of these places. If you get lost, it can prove to be fatal!

If you want to keep the job, I would insist on a meeting with a woman that works on the site, a local person plus HR about what arrangements are appropriate for the area. At a minimum I would expect being picked up from the airport, a safe hotel out of the 'dangerous' area and only day time travel in and out of the working site.

If you want to keep this job, there are ways you can handle this now should you wish.

Good luck and feel free to DM me!

Ps everyone is different. Should you not wish to go to places like this, it is not a reflection on you at all. No one has to do this type of work if they don't want to and if it doesn't suit you, then so be it. Don't feel you have to if you are not comfortable.

OP if your company are a bit rubbish on this, I would lead on it myself, start with a conversation with the company insurer. They are likely to point you in the right direction and are likely to be a good ally as the company putting you in danger will be something they have to cover, insurers tend to respect FCO guidance and if they are on it they will also guide you on managing risk.

There are also companies who offer hostile environment training and/or travel risk advice, ask your company if you can consult one on the basis of the FCO guidance flagging issues as you're not sure 'how to complete the risk assessment' - albeit that I agree with others that the RA is for the company to worry about, not you(!). That way you would be able to get to a proper risk assessment prepared that is likely to shoot down travel to any areas off grid etc and highlight to your employer the risk they are asking you to take. I would play the 'really happy to go as long as it's safe' card when talking to your manager.

I’d recommend a HEAT course if you end up going.

@biokult it's more than just the security situation that is raising red flags here. Your quotes have included:

"I think things have fallen through the cracks because of staff sickness.

They have a great HR department etc who I'm sure would help, but the problem is this has all be sprung upon me, and I need to really talk to my LM before escalating when I have just started.
....
So to be clear, my line manager is the one who didn't mention this [risk assessment].



It only came up when I was liasing with travel company they use. I then asked our HR department who said that categorically yes one was needed.
....

I haven't had a zoom/face to face meeting with anyone.

....
The thing that is confusing me, and what seems to go against what other have said is normal practise, is HR told me to do the risk assessment & mitigation procedures myself.


Obviously I'm not an expert, and it would be down to my line manager to advise, and given that she hadn't even mentioned a risk assemment would need to be done, I'm concerned they won't take it as seriously as they should.

It sounds like your line manager is not concerning herself with the very real risks to your security, you're not engaging with the correct level of HR to tackle the planning for this trip, and you are at greatest risk of people who haven't grasped the enormity of the suggested situation making decisions they are not informed about. People make crap decisions when they are not fully informed.

DO NOT ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN!

That said, it also sounds very early in the whole process, so keep calm and diplomatic as you have been, but do prepare well for your first proper discussion about it on Friday! This should include questions like:

• Who was the last UK colleague who travelled to the main site in Mexico?

• When was that, did they travel solo or in a pair, and can you see the risk assessments and travel arrangements made for that trip?

• Who was the last UK colleague who did any visits OFF the main Mexico site? Ditto arrangements for that.

• Where is the highest risk location any UK colleague has travelled to globally, who in HR did the risk assessments, which external security advisor handled the transfer and local security arrangements?

• Where is the highest risk location your line manager has travelled to globally while working for your current employer? (This may lead to a good conversation with your LM, or it may be illuminating that she has NEVER undertaken work travel of this kind of risk she is proposing you undertake for her team!)

I think you have interpreted from an email that HR is suggesting you prepare your own risk assessment for this trip. I hope this is crossed wires! You should not be undertaking a trip to a neighbourhood of the nature you describe (FCO off limits, carjacking, sexual assaults, kidnap risk) without input from international security advisors who are professionals that provide security of the level other posters have referred to: pre-travel hostile environment training/armoured cars/armed drivers/bodyguards etc.

Do not let your line manager's naïvety about proposing this "site visit" put you as personal risk. Equally, stay diplomatic, ask well informed & prepared questions, and do not hesitate to escalate to an appropriate level in tour central HR team, and your career can fly!

You might end up not going to the "off" site, you may end up visiting & having great engagement, but being ferried there in an appropriately secure manner for the local risks.

You could always suggest that your line manager makes the trip with you, to gauge her comfort level about the safety procedures in place ;D

Good luck

You’ve had some good advice op (and been very patient with some posters!) . I hope you are crystal clear that a risk assessment must be completed or at a minimum supported by a professional experienced in them. If you have an argument that the risk is different for you than for a man and that isn’t being allowed for in the planning then you would have a discrimination case if this travel became a problem. With that in mind, make sure you play back phone conversations in emails. summarise previous discussions at the start of an email etc. with Mexico you do have this argument, I think it’s 10 women a day who are murdered there.
but I hope it all blows over and you get a much better plan from your discussion with the manager!

I used to work for a large multinational, good reputation etc. They always seemed to have a cheery disregard for my personal safety. While in theory they took safety seriously when there was an urgent need to get someone to a particular site it would all go out of the window.

IME line managers 'cant see the problem' when all they are focused on is getting someone (not themselves) to travel somewhere.

Unfortunately you do have to make a fuss. In making that fuss you are also helping other colleagues who will also get forced into unsafe travel.

Something I also noticed in my travelling days was that senior executives travelling at the start of a project were automatically met with chauffeured cars, armed guards etc and automatically stayed in high end hotels with good security. Us lesser mortals who were actually doing the work would be put in more convenient, less luxurious hotels and expected to make shift with public transport or local taxis if we were lucky.

On one particular project it took a mini mutiny to be given chauffeured cars rather than use public transport when it was realised that even the local based workers weren't using public transport (there had been a string of bomb attacks on the metro system).

@biokult

Hi OP,

I'm originally from Mexico. To which city are you going? And in which suburb will you be staying?

I can give you more detailed advice.

Cheers,

Hi OP, I think the underlying difficulty is that you've run into your own limits and it's conflicting with your self-image. You see yourself as someone who is capable, experienced and happy working in a variety of unusual and adventurous situations. But not this. That's fine, your concerns are valid, and you've received a lot of practical advice on how to mitigate or walk away. But you're insisting on it 'not being fine for anyone' instead of adjusting your self-image to 'not as adventurous as I once thought'.

Bit harsh @Stravaig? I don't think OP has at any point said outright 'not this'. She's said, very reasonably, that she's not happy doing her own risk assessment for a trip to an FCDO red travel zone, and wouldn't be comfortable relying on local taxis or lifts from local colleagues to get there. Those are two very appropriate responses, let's be honest!

Once she gets to the bottom of what the request/current travel assumptions are when she talks with her line manager this Friday, she might decide that travelling to a part of the world that requires an armed driver and varied route planning to mitigate the risk of kidnap isn't actually her cup of tea.

Which would also be an entirely rational response, and not part of the role description she was recruited for.

I don't think she's said at any point it's not safe for anyone - IF appropriate mitigations are applied. Plenty of other posters have detailed the level that can go up to. I expect 99.5% of mumsnet members would be firmly in the 'not actually that adventurous' category, so no need to have a dig at OP's "self-image"!!!