work trip not what it seemed :/

[biokult]

Accepted a job of which international travel was involved, was very lucky in that I had a couple offers, which I turned down for my current position. Country is considered unsafe, however the insitute I would be based at is in a tourist-y area which is why I was comfortable agreeing.

Things have been very rushed due to lack of staff, and feel like my queries are not being answered.

My current dilemna is thus: a member of the team mentioned they would be based at a certain site, which was not the area I had expected to working in. I would then be expected to commute there via taxi, or "maybe collegues can drop you". I said no problem, assuming that if it was part of their company the area would also be fine.

Have since looked up the area and it is dodgy AF, yougov strongly recommend avoiding this and similar neighbourhoods. If you must go there you should have a local guide/security. Cabs will often refuse to pick you up from there due to high crime rate. I do not want to rely on collegues I do not for lifts in case they let me down and I am stuck.

I have agreed to the trip, although had this detail been made clear I would've said no. I feel like no precuations have been put in place, or discussed with me.

Please help me navigate this. My sister & her partner (who I live with) are being incredibly unhelpful, telling me to quit on the spot and no job is worth my life or being assualted etc etc. Obviously this is true, but I also want to maintain good working relationships and ideally not be unemployed!

Pretty pissed off tbh, anyone been in similar situations?

The pandemic has made a lot of systems not fit for purpose. I have been asked to do things that would place the vulnerable children in my care at risk. Fortunately I was in a strong position to refuse and also to protect my team from similar issues. If your company are missing things you need to look after yourself. Having to deal with any bad situations resulting from danger would be far worse personally and career wise than making a reasonable request to only go to safe areas and countries.
It’s not easy, good luck

Sounds like a government job I’m sure you’ll be safe and this is what you signed up to

When my husband had to go to work in a very dodgy neighbourhood in South Africa he was supplied with transport and armed guards to and from his hotel. Seriously, I would be asking myself what regard your employer has in putting you in such a situation. They have no right to treat your safety in such a cavalier fashion. Even driving by yourself is no guarantee of your safety. You've only got one life. What they are suggesting simply isn't on. Trust your instincts on this.

Really quite horrified by your employers asking you to do this but not entirely surprised.

In employment law terms (and I am not an employment lawyer), I would guess that it would be a potential breach of contract on your employer's part (you haven't been there long enough to claim unfair dismissal). Because it appears to breach the common law duty of trust and confidence owed by an employer to their employee that is implied into every contract of employment, it breaches common law health and safety and it could potentially be sex discrimination (due to the risk of rape which can presumably be statistically proven).

None of that helps you in the short term though and I can just imagine a company whose employee was murdered or raped in such circumstances acting all innocent and surprised, knowing they can't be held liable because it happened outwith the UK.

Employers are increasingly shitty these days. My DP got sent to China 6 days before Christmas with 48 hours warning, got back on Christmas Eve, no extra pay for working away from home or overseas, not even overtime. Its just not worth it.

I’d expect a reputable U.K. employer to provide transport to and from any location abroad. Is this a new job or a change of role?

Insist on knowing more about where you are staying, how you are getting to and from your hotel and say no if you don’t feel comfortable.

I SWEAR TO GOD THIS IS TRUE:

In the 80s I flew to San Diego to visit my friend. She had narcissistic tendencies but I loved her nonetheless.
She & her BF & friends decided to drive down into Mexico for the day — we ended up at the Rosarito Beach Hotel in Rosarito, Baja Mexico.
We got tipsy drinking margaritas. They decided to leave, and I was right behind them, maybe three minutes. When I got out to the car park, they were gone! They had left without me!!!
I suspect my friend just casually said, “Oh, let’s just leave without her.” It’s something she would have done, no big surprise.
There were two Fedérales (Mexico’s answer to police) standing outside the hotel — I asked them if they had seen a beautiful American girl with her male friends and they said, “Si, si!” and motioned for me to come with them. And like an idiot, I got in their SUV and went with them.
They drove me 30-35 miles deeper into Mexico — by that time, I had sobered up enough to see that this was dire and insisted they stop. They stopped at some dive bar and I ended up hitch-hiking about 65 miles back to my friend’s home in San Diego.
It was terrifying and exasperating and infuriating.
And I beat them home. Instead of coming back for me, they went out for a leisurely dinner and more drinks.
I didn’t speak to her for years after that and I have NEVER been back to Mexico.
When the police/Fedérales kidnap you instead of help you, you’re in the wrong place.
@biokult that was my experience — I believe it’s gone downhill, if that’s possible.

My own risk assessment based on your information says No

What insurance cover is your employer providing? Sounds like they should be providing chauffeur

Most reputable UK companies will have an online Risk Assessment form in place. As you're the person going overseas, only you get to decide if the risks identified on your form have been sufficiently mitigated by your company.
I have been working in developing countries for a while now, and this was the case with all three of my past employers.
For example: Safe Base Locations - Unless your trip involves no travel to unsafe areas, this risk will not be mitigated in your perspective and you are within your rights to refuse to take on the entire trip. Similarly, you will have sections in your Risk Assessment for transport provision, safety of women, etc.
The onus is on HR to ensure your RA is carried out correctly. The company travel insurance should also require the RA to be correctly undertaken.
I would speak to HR/your Line Manager and as a new joiner, ask to be referred to colleagues who have completed Risk Assessments for similar trips, so you can contact those colleagues and complete your own Risk Assessment accurately.
They cannot make you travel if you are not comfortable with the risks involved. TBH I find their attitude cavalier, and would start looking for a new job, if things don't shape up over the course next week. Good luck OP.

@howtomoveforwards

OP, granted it was some years ago but as a lone female Intravelled all over central and South America, including Mexico, without incident. Granted, I was careful generally and speak Spanish fluently but it is nowhere the awful, awful place the foreign office would have you believe. There is huge poverty in Mexico and you will struggle to avoid it as a rule of thumb. I honestly would worry too much. You will find the employees will look after you and ensure that you are safe.

I've travelled as a lone female in developing countries, incident free. It doesn't mean those countries are safe, it means that luckily I didn't get caught up in anything when I was there.

Simple don’t go!

First things first. Speak to your line manager and to HR. Also do you have a Union? There are many places in the world where business men and women travellers may be specifically targeted. If this is one of them, your company will have a risk assessment, ask to see it, and may provide a driver and security for its personnel. Ask the questions. If it is considered a safe area they will tell you, but you do have the right and the need to ask. If the company hasn’t already talked to you about it, they may well consider it safe, or your colleague could be going off-piste of their own volition, and the company doesn’t know.

Step 1: Take a job overseas thinking it will be a paid beach holiday.

Step 2: Freak out when you realise you might actually meet some "foreign people" and things might be a little different than here.

@Imlovinglife

Step 1: Take a job overseas thinking it will be a paid beach holiday.

Step 2: Freak out when you realise you might actually meet some "foreign people" and things might be a little different than here.

Have you read any of my posts @Imlovinglife?

I haven't accepted a job overseas. I'm not panicking because I'll be meeting "foreign people" or that things will be "different" Also given what I work as, it will certainly be no beach holiday.

I agreed to make some trips to a specific insitute in Mexico, as part of my new job in the UK. This institute is in a built up area, reliable & safe transport, secure parking, with lots of employees commuting there. The rest of the time I will be managing the project from here.

It is now being suggested I actually work at a remote site in a neighbourhood where the FCO advise against travel & locals warn against going to, with no mititagtions being put in place.

There is a very high risk of violent crime there, including carjacking, gang violence and sexual assault, hence why it is reasonable for me to be concerned.

@IrisSibirica

Most reputable UK companies will have an online Risk Assessment form in place. As you're the person going overseas, only you get to decide if the risks identified on your form have been sufficiently mitigated by your company. I have been working in developing countries for a while now, and this was the case with all three of my past employers. For example: Safe Base Locations - Unless your trip involves no travel to unsafe areas, this risk will not be mitigated in your perspective and you are within your rights to refuse to take on the entire trip. Similarly, you will have sections in your Risk Assessment for transport provision, safety of women, etc. The onus is on HR to ensure your RA is carried out correctly. The company travel insurance should also require the RA to be correctly undertaken. I would speak to HR/your Line Manager and as a new joiner, ask to be referred to colleagues who have completed Risk Assessments for similar trips, so you can contact those colleagues and complete your own Risk Assessment accurately. They cannot make you travel if you are not comfortable with the risks involved. TBH I find their attitude cavalier, and would start looking for a new job, if things don't shape up over the course next week. Good luck OP.

Thanks this is all really helpful advice and much appreciated

Speaking to colleague is a good shout too, people are still in the habit of working remotely so it's been harder to meet other staff, but I'll try some of the slack channels to get in touch with people :)

Step 1: Take a job overseas thinking it will be a paid beach holiday.

Step 2: Freak out when you realise you might actually meet some "foreign people" and things might be a little different than here.

What rubbish! OP posted with genuine, serious concerns, this isn't a "do you think they'll have proper chips in Marbella?" thread ffs

@MyCatIsAJerk that sounds terrifying and I'm impressed you managed to find it within yourself to get back in contact with your friend

How did she make it up to you?!

@Imlovinglife

Step 1: Take a job overseas thinking it will be a paid beach holiday.

Step 2: Freak out when you realise you might actually meet some "foreign people" and things might be a little different than here.

I can't really see anything in the OP's post that would lead you to come to either of those conclusions.

But don't let accuracy get in the way of your agenda.

@Sodullincomparison

I did most of my work in the centre but also travelled and worked in Neza - often classed as the biggest mega slum in the world.

My driver was armed and my car was bullet proof and I had to keep my bag in the car.

I met fantastic people in Neza and loved it.

However, during my time in Mexico my shower went on fire!, my taxi crashed and I got worms from eating street stand tacos!

You will have a ball and speaking Spanish means you won’t stand out unless you’re heading to certain rural regions.

My risk assessment included;

Arranging the airport pick up prior to arriving
No jewellery
No alcohol allowed
Daily online sign in with HR
Registration with British embassy
Bullet proof car and river for certain visits
No public transport
Only allowed to travel to a designated region ( although that went out the window when they sent me for a quick deal)

Your HR department will have these if they send people overseas.

Thanks for this balanced account @Sodullincomparison! And also good to hear the positive aspects haha.

Really useful to see the kinds of things that go into a risk assessment for this kind of travel.

I spoke to a friend who works in a completely different industry where they are often sent to dangerous regions & he was shocked and pointed out his employers would put in months of planning for a trip like this. These kind of accounts are really eye opening so glad I made a thread and lots of people are sharing!

@Imlovinglife

Step 1: Take a job overseas thinking it will be a paid beach holiday.

Step 2: Freak out when you realise you might actually meet some "foreign people" and things might be a little different than here.

Some posters really will go to any lengths to slag off an op. Ridiculous post.

"My sister & her partner (who I live with) are being incredibly unhelpful, telling me to quit on the spot and no job is worth my life or being assualted etc etc"

Tbh I think your sister and partner are being anything but unhelpful.
You share a home yet still they recommend putting your safety above financial security (which will impact on household expenses) - that's care!
It's one thing choosing to take risks with your personal safety yourself, quite another for a third party to place you at risk they are not taking themselves.
You clearly have concerns by posting this. My advice is listen to your own instincts, then formulate them into a reasoned "no" to your employer

@biokult

She never made it up to me.

She told me I was being ridiculous & over-reacting, because after all, I made it back to San Diego just fine.

I gave up on her after that & decided yes, she’s a narcissist.

I haven’t spoken to her in 25 years.

Hi @biokult - lots of people have mentioned Hostile Environment Training, but i couldnt see whether you have addressed this in your replies. I used to travel to and from sub-Saharan Africa in a previous life, and had colleagues who went to Central and South America. It was a condition of our insurance that we did this training. Mine was a 5 day course in some airport hanger in Sussex - it teaches you all about how to react in dangerous situations, plus some self defence theory, basic emergency first aid, dealing with kidnap / terrorist situations, defusing or extracating yourself from volatile situations and there was a day about working with bodyguards / evasive driving etc. Your employer should pay for you do this before you go anywhere near any site visits, in addition to lots of the good advice you had had in relation to risk assessments. If you do decide to go, please raise this with them and don't take no for an answer!

I travel all over the world and sometimes in not very desirable places.

There is a world of difference between being shuttled between a hotel and a factory for two weeks and being expected to essentially live there for the same period.

I'm very surprised that you are expected to do your own risk assessment. There will be specific areas you would need to cover. Also if they're a big multi national surely they've had to consider staff security before?

Do they have a third party to support with this - eg International SOS? I would imagine that they would have something. I'd also imagine that it's hidden in your work intranet and most colleagues have forgotten it exists because they haven't been travelling much for the last couple of years.

If I were you I'd be bugging your line manager, travel booking service, Health and safety and possibly HR as a new starter. If there's nothing it would ring SERIOUS alarm bells for me, not just about travel but about all the other things they probably aren't doing a great job of.

Glad you're going to speak to colleagues - I have found most people who regularly travel for work are keen to share their knowledge with fellow colleagues.
This sounds like a great opportunity - but make sure your company are looking out for you. :)

OP, you have been getting some good advice about important security issues you need to pin down with your employer. Would you be working for a wealthy, well known company?

I used to live in Bogotá. The risk assessment was done by the security company hired to protect the expats. All apartments had to be from the sixth floor up, and no jewellery, especially earrings which could be ripped from your ears. We had a company car and driver who was armed as kidnapping and robbery were always on the cards. There were areas where we were advised not to go. I did go to one of those areas once, with a friend and her driver so we had two men with guns for protection. When My dh came home he said that the security company had already phoned to tell him where I'd been and I got a telling off. As you can guess, the security company was very expensive. They even had their own negotiators for kidnappings.

Foreign, business people stand out, so drivers were told to vary the routes to work. Working as an expat in any country with poverty, drug cartels and a history of robbery, murder and kidnapping requires serious security to be in place. Life is cheap in these places and your own safety is paramount. I wouldn't be in a taxi if they paid me.