work trip not what it seemed :/

[biokult]

Accepted a job of which international travel was involved, was very lucky in that I had a couple offers, which I turned down for my current position. Country is considered unsafe, however the insitute I would be based at is in a tourist-y area which is why I was comfortable agreeing.

Things have been very rushed due to lack of staff, and feel like my queries are not being answered.

My current dilemna is thus: a member of the team mentioned they would be based at a certain site, which was not the area I had expected to working in. I would then be expected to commute there via taxi, or "maybe collegues can drop you". I said no problem, assuming that if it was part of their company the area would also be fine.

Have since looked up the area and it is dodgy AF, yougov strongly recommend avoiding this and similar neighbourhoods. If you must go there you should have a local guide/security. Cabs will often refuse to pick you up from there due to high crime rate. I do not want to rely on collegues I do not for lifts in case they let me down and I am stuck.

I have agreed to the trip, although had this detail been made clear I would've said no. I feel like no precuations have been put in place, or discussed with me.

Please help me navigate this. My sister & her partner (who I live with) are being incredibly unhelpful, telling me to quit on the spot and no job is worth my life or being assualted etc etc. Obviously this is true, but I also want to maintain good working relationships and ideally not be unemployed!

Pretty pissed off tbh, anyone been in similar situations?

I’m surprised that you have had some patronising/sniffy comments here (I shouldn’t be though as there are a good number of bitchy types on mumsnet). Of course you will be concerned. You are just being sensible. Based on what you have said about your company though, maybe they too will be concerned and make alternative arrangements. No job is worth your safety and certainly not your life.

Maybe your direct team aren't familiar with the site you are expected to travel to. I would show them the FO guidance and what people from that area have said and point out that you will stick out like a sore thumb and potentially be a target, and say you need mitigations in place.
Do not go without those, no job is ever worth risking your safety for. You are disposable to your employer but not to your family and friends!

Regarding unfair dismissal, one cannot claim that until you have been in a job 2 years. You would have to prove discrimination or the like. I would therefore raise your concerns about the safety with HR and the travel company. Possibly also HSE but I'm not sure they would cover overseas trips...perhaps worth asking them though.

@Bagpusssays

I've lived and worked in a developing country. You don't sound cut out for it.

As have I. But I think this response is a bit dismissive. It is fine for her to worry and be trying to check her safety. And sensible to work out what sort of responsibility the work place take and try to plan around that. And you learn very little about someone from a mumsnet post. I am sure you had a similar journey when you were starting out and hopefully someone was encouraging and supportive.

You describe your sister and her partner as being 'incredibly unhelpful' and yet:

1. They are kindly putting you up
2. Their advice concurs with Foreign Office
3. Not to mention most of the posters on this thread!

Find another job!

Rambo Last Blood anyone?

Jesus I most definitely would NOT be going.

No job is worth this risk.

@Wilkolampshade

Oh god. DD off to Mexico for 3 weeks. Some touristy bits then travelling. 😳

Seriously??? Have you done ANY research at all?

@carolipankas

You describe your sister and her partner as being 'incredibly unhelpful' and yet:

1. They are kindly putting you up
2. Their advice concurs with Foreign Office
3. Not to mention most of the posters on this thread!

Find another job!

My sister and her partner are actually lodgers in my home, whilst some work is going on in theirs.

As I said to another poster, I think that they are being unhelpful as there's a whole load of options that can go between being forced into an unsafe work trip and quitting on the spot.

I could

• go with a proper risk mititigation set up that I'm happy with - people do travel to places the FO advise against for work, but with huge amounts of planning in place
• go with the proviso I won't go the dodgy site and will stay where I expected to be

-refuse to go at all, manage entirely from the UK

If none of these options work out I'd be wanting them to fire me rather than quitting on the spot, and have to go through the whole HR process.

This means that I can look for another job in the meantime. Yes, in an ideal world it would be great to hand in my notice dramtically and say why, but I have a mortgage to pay and want to do this as diplomatically as possible.

@CompassPoint

OP could you suggest the compromise of the local staff travelling to the safer site? Is that possible within what you need to do? Do not worry about them being annoyed at you wanting to be treated differently, they will likely be very relieved as it makes it safer for them too.

Thanks yes this is what I'm going to suggest and take it from there.

The safer site is their normal place of work, I am hoping that they will accept the added risk of me travelling out of it isn't worth it. Ultimately I need to see what my manager thinks when I meet with her on Friday.

I did most of my work in the centre but also travelled and worked in Neza - often classed as the biggest mega slum in the world.

My driver was armed and my car was bullet proof and I had to keep my bag in the car.

I met fantastic people in Neza and loved it.

However, during my time in Mexico my shower went on fire!, my taxi crashed and I got worms from eating street stand tacos!

You will have a ball and speaking Spanish means you won’t stand out unless you’re heading to certain rural regions.

My risk assessment included;

Arranging the airport pick up prior to arriving
No jewellery
No alcohol allowed
Daily online sign in with HR
Registration with British embassy
Bullet proof car and river for certain visits
No public transport
Only allowed to travel to a designated region ( although that went out the window when they sent me for a quick deal)

Your HR department will have these if they send people overseas.

@AMBE123

Maybe your direct team aren't familiar with the site you are expected to travel to. I would show them the FO guidance and what people from that area have said and point out that you will stick out like a sore thumb and potentially be a target, and say you need mitigations in place. Do not go without those, no job is ever worth risking your safety for. You are disposable to your employer but not to your family and friends!

Regarding unfair dismissal, one cannot claim that until you have been in a job 2 years. You would have to prove discrimination or the like. I would therefore raise your concerns about the safety with HR and the travel company. Possibly also HSE but I'm not sure they would cover overseas trips...perhaps worth asking them though.

Thanks @AMBE123

Really good point about unfair dismal, d'oh.

Hopefully raising concerns will be enough, I'll have a look at HSE too!

I haventvv be read all the replies yet but did want to say that in some countries I have been to for work ( South Africa and India) the hire car comes with a driver ( who in SA doubled as security). If they want you to do this they need to pay for similar.

I've visited Mexico a couple of times. What stops me going back is that while I was there I saw the aftermath of gang violence in tourist areas. What happened was largely kept out of the international papers or played down, although the cruise ships stopped visiting for a time.

You cannot reasonably assess the risks because the information you need to do so is not reliable.

To be fair, if you have to do your own risk assessment it would solve the issue, based on what you have said, it would be so covered in high and red they wouldn’t be able to send you anyway

I haven't read all 7 pages so apologies if this has been answered. But you said that your company have confirmed that you need to do a risk assessment.

No you don't, although you should certainly think about all the questions you need to ask them. It is the company that MUST undertake a full risk assessment. Everything from the moment you leave home to the moment you get back.

All your travel arrangements, your accommodation, your meals, your money, your work environment, your social time, absolutely everything about your time away.

They need to be clear on all your arrangements, what to do if you go sick or injure yourself. Your personal safety.

They need to understand local conditions and Foreign Office guidance.

Your company has a huge amount of work to do.

Just to comment that work based risk assessments for insurance aren't reliable.

They may take on board an element of generic risk, but there are many instances of British nationals being harmed working abroad, including one kidnapping and murder I knew personally.

I would not use that as a guideline personally.

Why are you procrastinating, your family are correct. Do not go. No job is worth what could happen to you. I have read all your comments and I can't understand why your judgement is impaired. Forgive my bluntness please but as an older lady, I feel my gut instinct as a mother and grandmother which has never let me down is telling me NO.

I am not sure if this response is too late but i would suggest to not ask but act more confidently by presuming. Say to manager and HR " obviously this is a high risk area, before we confirm dates please confirm the hours my security detail/driver will be available" Act as if of course you will be doing this, give that vibe. I hope you sort it out.

@Bagpusssays

I've lived and worked in a developing country. You don't sound cut out for it.

You sound arrogant as f* (coming from some who had lived and worked in dozens of developing countries).

OP I've read your comments, having worked abroad myself although not in Mexico, and what stands out to me is this.
the problem is this has all be sprung upon me, and I need to really talk to my LM
You seem to be advancing towards a departure date, yet you really haven't been given any information or real answers to any of the questions you've asked.
I don't think they can say this essential work that they should have done has "fallen through the cracks due to sickness" no one is taking any responsibility for your safety, or insurance etc..
Risk Assessment? Oh do that yourself love.
This just sounds like a company which literally doesn't know what they are doing and if anything goes wrong in this area you've been advised not to visit - how good are they going to be at having your back?
What is all the secrecy about. It really does read as if they want to get personnel over there asap and are not too fussed about how they support them. It doesn't sound like the support is going to be there or if they even know what that support would be. They didn't even make sure you could drive for heavens sake. They don't seem to understand the risks the journey might pose for you on your own.
Unless your line manager comes up with some clear, transparent and well researched answers to your questions and concerns, you shouldn't touch this job with a bargepole.

I worked along the Zambian and Congo boarder during the military coup. I remember worrying cos tge guards we had weren't armed- they'd had to hang in their guns.

I had a driver, the local police stopped us regularly and asked for a lift. The armed guards at the gold/copper/platinum mines all waved me through, we never got stopped. I was pretty oblivious to the risks except mosquitoes!

I tried to switch to Brazil because I did not want to see poverty in Africa, but I went to Zambia.

In hindsight I'd still go tomorrow - why? Because my employer was sh1t hot at risk management. They had people in every country we worked (like special ops) who would pull people our of countries at a moments notice. They had their own vehickes/planes/helicopters etc.

Of course there are risks - who knew someone would kidnap those workers at tge oil plant and execute some of them?

If you feel unsafe don't go. Always go with your gut it works to keep you safe.

Good luck x

My husband looked up Mexico on International SOS and they have the security risk as high. If you go on the International SOS site and then to Risk Outlook 2022 there's a risk map, press on view the interactive map, put in the city you are going to in the box and press go and it will give you an assessment.

Quote Foreign Office advice and refuse to go

This might be a really obvious point, but there’s international travel and there’s international travel. Going to Brussels or Beijing is a completely different ballgame from going to high risk areas - the very fact that posters on here are talking very matter of fairly about kidnap insurance would be sounding klaxons for me. I’m not an aid worker, journalist or security professional, and there’s no way I’d be putting myself in a position where kidnap is considered a risk that needs to be insured against to meet a customer or supplier. It’s perfectly ok to say no if you were expecting the first type of travel, but it turns out to be the latter.

I’d think about the role you’re doing. If it isn’t one of those jobs that is a true calling and requires travel to dangerous places by definition, most people would be turning it down. Some would also travel to risky areas if they’re getting very nicely rewarded for it. And in both of those cases you’d still expect the employer to take all reasonable safety measures, which sound lacking in your case.

Please don’t listen to people saying they travelled there and nothing happened. That really means nothing. This all boils down to your own comfort levels and knowing your employer takes your safety seriously.

No, because I'd never be daft enough to go to an iffy place, not for any amount of money.
Relying on taxis who likely won't want to pick you up OR could themselves be held at gunpoint. Colleagues who may keep you waiting in iffy areas...
Remember the woman who was killed on honeymoon in India with her DH and the taxi driver was held at gunpoint whilst the robbers took money, jewellery and the bride who was never found.
If you want to be a statistic then go...and lots of luck. Stay safe.