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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Just when you think this government can't get any worse - now they are going to send asylum seekers to Rwanda

639 replies

daimbarsatemydogsbone · 14/04/2022 08:25

I didn't vote for this shower. The problem with people arriving (if they make it) in small boats needs addressing but AIBU that sending them on a one way trip to Rwanda isn't the answer?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
theDudesmummy · 14/04/2022 12:54

@OctopusSay that's a whole nother issue. But the overall principal is that people are going to say whatever they need to say to avoid going to Rwnada (assuming this scheme is real which I still don't really believe). They will "identify" as gay, trans,mentally ill, as they will be able to successfully prove that these characteristics mean that their human rights will be specifically violated by their being set to Rwanda. For some it will be true. For some it will not. It will make a mockery of the whole (ridiculous, unethical) system.

AlexaShutUp · 14/04/2022 12:57

It’smale economic migrants.

Not refugees.

Have I misunderstood?

I thought that the idea was to ship male asylum seekers off to Rwanda so that their asylum claims could be processed there instead of here.

But you seem to be saying that we will be processing asylum claims here in the UK and allowing the genuine refugees to stay, so that it is only the economic migrants who will be shipped off to Rwanda.

Or perhaps it is you that has misunderstood.

Original poster
daimbarsatemydogsbone · 14/04/2022 12:58

@theDudesmummy

People tend to go where they have relatives if they can. The UK is a big country (population-wise) and has (greatly to its benefit) a lot of people from other countries living in it. This increases the chances that people are going to have a relative in the UK. Not everyone tries to come to the UK. There are plenty wanting to settle in Germany, Scandinavia, etc wherever their relatives live.

The narrative that its about the UK benefits system in some way is a right-wing trope and utterly wrong.

True, but we have minimal enforcement once people are here, and plenty of opportunities to work off the books. Don't get me wrong - I'm not demonising people for wanting a better life - but another part of the pull to be here is the lack of any likelihood of being caught once you melt into the general population.
OP posts:
Hospedia · 14/04/2022 12:59

Instant human rights issue, therefore, by sending people to Rwanda, so they'll have to make an exception for all asylum seekers claiming to be gay, bisexual or trans

Rwanda doesn't have anything stove basic healthcare facilities either so anyone with ongoing health needs could argue being sent there would potentially kill them.

Original poster
daimbarsatemydogsbone · 14/04/2022 13:01

So do we think this scheme will just turn out to be unworkable?
Who will the Tories blame when they have to ditch it?

OP posts:
Alexandra2001 · 14/04/2022 13:01

@HRTQueen

Well it’s a vote winner

I don’t understand how Europe collectively have not been able to manage this issue better

What would you do if you think the solution is so easily found?

But of course it isn't, the only thing that works (in limiting economic migration) is boosting the economies of the countries they come from but we don't want to do that, so cut foreign aid.

Forcibly deporting people to a far away country is more akin to something Putin or Xi would do.

We should seeking return agreements with the EU and with the countries of origin but of course that requires negotiating with the EU, something BJ has proven utterly incapable of doing as everything with him has to be a competition.

One thing i would say its a great pity this policy wasn't in force in the 60s, then Patel would never be here.

theDudesmummy · 14/04/2022 13:01

I understand it to mean that people will be shipped off and THEN their asylum claims will be processed. So a mixture of those people who will fail to qualify and those people who will qualify will all head for Rwanda. The "virtuous" will come back to the UK at some point, the rest will stay in Randa and have long, happy and prosperous lives in a very poor country where they never wanted to be and where the locals depise and envy them. Sound like a plan.

AlexaShutUp · 14/04/2022 13:02

@daimbarsatemydogsbone

So do we think this scheme will just turn out to be unworkable? Who will the Tories blame when they have to ditch it?
I don't think they have ever had any intention of implementing it. It's just a distraction technique.
Intheinterestsoffairness · 14/04/2022 13:03

There are surely better solutions for asylum seekers and/or migrants than this. We travel regularly through Caen. Large groups of young men hang around the traffic lights and roundabouts near to the Ouistreham ferry, waiting for vehicles to slow so they can jump on - lorries and motorhomes specifically. No-one with a motorhome stays near the ferry overnight, the risk of stowaways is too high.

The part that puzzles me is why aren't they being picked up by the French authorities? They are in France illegally at that point, but it seems a blind eye is being turned judging by how many people you can see. Wouldn't it be better to work with the French and come to an arrangement in terms of the UK and the rest of Europe accepting a certain percentage of the asylum seekers France takes in near the ferries?

707smile · 14/04/2022 13:04

It's pretty horrifying isn't it! Nothing they do surprises me any longer though.

SushiShopSearch · 14/04/2022 13:05

I can't see an issue. If people are fleeing for their lives and looking for safety then they need to be processed for asylum. You know our country is absolutely full.

Ukranians are completely different. They have fled to the nearest country and are applying for visas from there.

This will stop people dying en route to the UK. They did the same in Australia and the hundreds of people drowning en route stopped as they were processed in PNG.

theDudesmummy · 14/04/2022 13:06

@Hospedia that is exactly correct, and I have personally worked with people who have successfully resisted being deported to this very country (and surrounding countries) because of the poor level of health care there, including the fact that they will not be able to access their essential medication there, so their human rights will be breached. The human rights and immigration lawyers will be all over it.

This. is. not. going. to. work.

707smile · 14/04/2022 13:07

@Dogmum40

As long as it’s safe for the vulnerable I can’t see an issue, if they are genuine they will be offered the right to stay, if they are coming to the uk with bad intentions then they get refused entry!

Surely this is a better alternative to people coming in illegally on boats who have paid vast sums to traffickers! If they genuinely need help this could be a better solution all round as if they are genuine they should find the legal route of entering

If you wanted a better quality of life and wanted to move to the UK, would you think that Rwanda would be an adequate alternative?
Soffit · 14/04/2022 13:08

@Alexa I’m not sure what you think you know that is any more valid than other contributors but any brainwashed social justice zombie could rock up with that arrogant sound byte. The world needs less middle class, suburban, saviours indoctrinated into believing that they are making a positive difference when the evidence shows otherwise.

theDudesmummy · 14/04/2022 13:09

@Dogmum40 define "bad intentions" and "genuine". Never heard of Windrush?

SleeplessInEngland · 14/04/2022 13:09

"I can't see an issue. If people are fleeing for their lives and looking for safety then they need to be processed for asylum. You know our country is absolutely full.

Ukranians are completely different. They have fled to the nearest country and are applying for visas from there.

This will stop people dying en route to the UK. They did the same in Australia and the hundreds of people drowning en route stopped as they were processed in PNG."

The country is 'full' unless the applicants are Ukrainians?

How will this stop boats coming?

Original poster
daimbarsatemydogsbone · 14/04/2022 13:10

The part that puzzles me is why aren't they being picked up by the French authorities?

The French actually want them to come to the UK so it's not their problem any more. They have to pretend otherwise occasionally but that's the truth of it - why spend money detaining people who are determined to leave France anyway?

OP posts:
HRTQueen · 14/04/2022 13:10

I don’t think there is an easy solution at all I agree with increasing investment to countries to improve their economy/opportunities but it’s not just about that it’s a way of life some want here a freedom in how we live our lives we have that they can only dream of at home especially younger people we can not go around enforcing cultural changes we surely have learnt from that but it’s not just about the economic choices of home

It has never been dealt with head on as it should be. We have children drowning and yet what happens a few statements of how awful it is and then nothing is done or a slight increase in funding

The Tories have time to try out another scheme that hey are trying something radical will please a lot voters why else do you think they are suggesting this

Blossomtoes · 14/04/2022 13:10

One thing i would say its a great pity this policy wasn't in force in the 60s, then Patel would never be here

Exactly what I said this morning. Talk about pulling the ladder up.

AlexaShutUp · 14/04/2022 13:10

Ukranians are completely different. They have fled to the nearest country and are applying for visas from there.

The Ukrainians are completely different because we have chosen to treat them completely differently.

I'm sure that Syrian refugees and others would have welcomed the opportunity to apply for asylum in the UK in their nearest country.

theDudesmummy · 14/04/2022 13:11

I do probably fall into your category of middle-class social justice saviour (no longer suburban though) but the arguments I have made here are more about how it can never work, rather than that it is monstrously wrong (although it is).

They are trying to distract you and give the DM readers an orgasm is all.

AlexaShutUp · 14/04/2022 13:12

[quote Soffit]@Alexa I’m not sure what you think you know that is any more valid than other contributors but any brainwashed social justice zombie could rock up with that arrogant sound byte. The world needs less middle class, suburban, saviours indoctrinated into believing that they are making a positive difference when the evidence shows otherwise.[/quote]
Well, I know what refugees and asylum seekers are. That's a good start.

mrshoho · 14/04/2022 13:13

@SushiShopSearch

I can't see an issue. If people are fleeing for their lives and looking for safety then they need to be processed for asylum. You know our country is absolutely full.

Ukranians are completely different. They have fled to the nearest country and are applying for visas from there.

This will stop people dying en route to the UK. They did the same in Australia and the hundreds of people drowning en route stopped as they were processed in PNG.

so instead of dying on our shores they'll be dying in Rwanda out of sight?
HRTQueen · 14/04/2022 13:13

It may surprise you have many immigrants would agree with this policy ….

Alexandra2001 · 14/04/2022 13:14

@SushiShopSearchus

I can't see an issue. If people are fleeing for their lives and looking for safety then they need to be processed for asylum. You know our country is absolutely full

So why aren't you up in arms about the Govt changing the law to allow up to 5m economic migrants to come from HK ?

Or aren't we "that" full?