Calories on the menu - just why?

[Figmentofmyimagination]

Visited pizza express last night to catch up with a girlfriend - first visit since pre pandemic. Ordered my favourite fiorentina pizza with spinach and egg but my enjoyment was somewhat diminished by reading the 950 calorie count on the menu. I understand that this is the law now. Who decided that this is a good idea? Absolutely crazy.

@Hont1986

Kids aren't the ones ordering from a kid's menu, it's the parent.

If they're old enough to be going somewhere and ordering themselves then I'd guess they're at least 11, which I think is an appropriate age to begin learning about and practicing a healthy diet.

Calories ≠ healthy diet. Yes, it is so important to learn about a healthy diet but calories don't show that - it is more important to have a healthy relationship with food - being able to eat freely, knowing good nutrition (which has nothing to do with calories), not consistently overeating (again, not in terms of calories - kids are growing, they need them, as does everyone). So much goes into being healthy - a healthy mindset surrounding food being one of the most important. Introducing calories to kids that young is a terrible idea. They mean nothing. They will just increase awareness of them, lead to ED's, hinder recovery from ED's and make people feel crap about what they want to eat when they go out.

@shreakin

Children should not be thinking or worrying about calories.Anyone who encourages their children to do so is sadly setting the seeds for a potential ED.

They should certainly be thinking about it. They will only "worry" about it if they feel it is something they have no control over.

Why should they be thinking about it? Genuinely curious as to your view on this

@lunamoonlic, see my earlier post (at 10.44)

@lunamoonllc

Because excess, surplus calories = weight gain
Excess weight gain = health problems

It’s a fact of life so of course they need to be aware of that and how to make healthy food choices that fit within a daily recommended calorie allowance

[quote LuckySantangelo35]@Girliefriendlikespuppies

But not all children have anorexia!! What about all those children who are overweight! There are more of those. They need support in all kinds of forms[/quote]
If a child is overweight they should be encouraged to grow into their weight not lose weight. It should also be noted that weight gain in children isn't necessarily a bad thing and is often because they're about to have a growth spurt or start puberty. Also kids naturally come in a wide range of different shapes and sizes as do all people.

The reasons people over eat and gain weight are complex and adding more guilt and shame into the mix is not helpful imo.

The overall aim for everyone is to eat intuitively, to listen to your body and to eat and enjoy a wide range of foods.

Not to count calories.

@luckysantangelo35

except that the daily calorie limit is a spurious measurement - much like BMI and relying on it just sets restrictions in your mind. Two women each eating 2000 calories a day won't lose, maintain or gain weight at the same rate.

Calories have been on food packets for years and haven't made a difference to "the obestiy crisis". Calories on menus won't make any difference either, except to those susceptible to eating disorders.

Disaster waiting to happen

[quote LuckySantangelo35]@lunamoonllc

Because excess, surplus calories = weight gain
Excess weight gain = health problems

It’s a fact of life so of course they need to be aware of that and how to make healthy food choices that fit within a daily recommended calorie allowance[/quote]
Yes, but what are the chances of having a consistent amount of surplus calories leading to 'excessive' weight gain from a few meals out? minuscule. However, the chances of calories taking up space in children's minds, perpetuating diet culture etc. from one meal out with calories on menus? Huge. Weight the pros and cons. Have the calories, but online, so only those that want/need to see them have to.

Also, the daily recommended calorie allowance is BS for a growing child

[quote Girlinorange]@luckysantangelo35

except that the daily calorie limit is a spurious measurement - much like BMI and relying on it just sets restrictions in your mind. Two women each eating 2000 calories a day won't lose, maintain or gain weight at the same rate.

Calories have been on food packets for years and haven't made a difference to "the obestiy crisis". Calories on menus won't make any difference either, except to those susceptible to eating disorders.

Disaster waiting to happen[/quote]
Spot on

Whilst obesity in children needs to be tackled, anorexia is a lot more dangerous. I don’t think children should be thinking about calories. Food should be for health. It’s parents that need educating and helping. If you look at threads about parents having been told their kids are overweight the majority of replies are dismissive that they’re fine, it’s a load of rubbish etc. What needs to happen is supper for those parents

The overall aim for everyone is to eat intuitively, to listen to your body and to eat and enjoy a wide range of foods

That's pie in the sky (and belly) thinking. For very many people, eating intuitively leads to being very overweight. Far more people have this problem than anorexia. Thankfully children are now being taught, from key stage 2 onwards as part of the national curriculum to think more scientifically about their diets.

If a child is overweight they should be encouraged to grow into their weight not lose weight

Eh - are you suggesting they can somehow adjust their height at will?

Girliefriendlikespuppies

I do agree that counting calories isn’t the way forward to healthy eating. I agree that intuitive eating is the ideal. Unfortunately our intuition and instincts are warped because of the very clever and powerful marketing that happens. We need multi level systemic change really. But, in the meantime, transparency about calories is a first step towards a different relationship to food in the west. It certainly has made me make more nutritious choices already as the lower calorie options had more veg.

It’s not ‘the’ answer but it’s the start of a process towards tackling the issues we have.

@Girliefriendlikespuppies

You can’t seriously be suggesting that there are no instances wherein children should lose weight rather than be “encouraged to grow into their weight” (whatever that means)?? You only have to look in a classroom to know that that is complete bollocks. It is not ok for those children. I think some people find it cute ‘chubby’ ‘chunky’ etc like they food etc - it’s not

Whilst obesity in children needs to be tackled, anorexia is a lot more dangerous.

I disagree. But it's not a competition Both are a problem. If you don't want your kids to see calories, take them to restaurants that aren't subject to the new law. It only applies to larger employers of over 250 people.

Ifailed

If a child is overweight they should be encouraged to grow into their weight not lose weight

Eh - are you suggesting they can somehow adjust their height at will?

I think you’ve misunderstood that post. You don't aim for weight loss in children - just maintain it so that as they grow, their height and weight are on similar centiles.

"Calories have been on food packets for years and haven't made a difference to "the obestiy crisis". "

They help me and many others control our weight.

@marmiteadict

We could always ask them to do this

I guess we need flaps of paper you can open or not.

Eating intuitively is constantly undermined.

I don't often don't want breakfast but so many people try and insist I shoukld eat it and that it will even help me loose weight. On another thread someone pointed out reakfast is a Dangerous Meal: Why You Should Ditch Your Morning Meal For Health and Wellbeing.

It's more nuanced than most messages- some people at some life points need breakfasts and some like me shouldnt be under pressure to eat it - however healthy.

A lot of the breakfast ideas have come from and been promoted by big compnaies selling breakfast items.

I also heavily had the message off eating everything on my plate - it's very ingrained - Dmum did sometimes tell us we didnlt have to but Dad remember rationing so struggled with that. I strugged with my DC - when do they need to eat decent cooked meal and not fill up later on fruit or toast and when to leave them to it.

My impression as a non-expert is that intuitive eating is complete bs. There is a nutritionist/dietitian on YouTube who goes on about it, but she's recovering from anorexia herself and seems to go from one extreme to the other.

@Gwenhwyfar

"Calories have been on food packets for years and haven't made a difference to "the obestiy crisis". "

They help me and many others control our weight.

I'm glad they've helped you - but as said, there is still an "obesity crisis" ... so how will adding them to menus help this? only people like you, who want to look and control your weight, will pay any attention ... same as with food packets. will affect those vulnerable instead

Calories have been on food packets for years and haven't made a difference to "the obestiy crisis"

I use it all the time for carbs, a lot of what I buy doesn’t need it - eg vegetables or fish etc but some stuff I want to check

A quick Google showed this and reasons why it’s useful

www.obesityactionscotland.org/media/1459/obesity__labelling_b-30.pdf

"only people like you, who want to look and control your weight, will pay any attention "

I'm glad you think people like me don't count. I would say I'm in the majority.

[quote LuckySantangelo35]@Girliefriendlikespuppies

But not all children have anorexia!! What about all those children who are overweight! There are more of those. They need support in all kinds of forms[/quote]
You can be perfectly healthy while 'overweight' (if you are using BMI to define what overweight is it's flawed, for many reasons). You cannot be healthy while having anorexia, or any ED, that is impossible. Many overweight people eat better than those whose BMI is normal. Those children should learn about nutrition, yes, but they should not be force fed diet culture and told to lose weight - something many of them will do naturally as they grow anyway - and some won't, because that's their genetics, and that's okay

@Gwenhwyfar

"only people like you, who want to look and control your weight, will pay any attention "

I'm glad you think people like me don't count. I would say I'm in the majority.

Did I say that? No. Of course you count, but it appears you have been able to control your weight all these years without having calories on menus, and there are many ways to find them online if you need to. People die from anorexia, others are trapped in diet culture their whole lives, children are at risk. In the nicest way possible - that right now, is more important

[quote MarshaBradyo]Calories have been on food packets for years and haven't made a difference to "the obestiy crisis"

I use it all the time for carbs, a lot of what I buy doesn’t need it - eg vegetables or fish etc but some stuff I want to check

A quick Google showed this and reasons why it’s useful

www.obesityactionscotland.org/media/1459/obesity__labelling_b-30.pdf[/quote]
Exactly - you check the labels for carbs etc. Calories don't show that