Calories on the menu - just why?

[Figmentofmyimagination]

Visited pizza express last night to catch up with a girlfriend - first visit since pre pandemic. Ordered my favourite fiorentina pizza with spinach and egg but my enjoyment was somewhat diminished by reading the 950 calorie count on the menu. I understand that this is the law now. Who decided that this is a good idea? Absolutely crazy.

@JedEye

Good analogy.

Perhaps there will be three groups of people

Group A) generally make healthy choices if possible (so probably not overweight). The labels will help group A.

Group B) overweight people who don’t care about calories (so not effective even though this was brought in to persuade group B to be more mindful)

Group C) people with eating disorders for whom this information will be detrimental.

All in all, will probably achieve the same as what the warnings on cigarette packets did for smokers. Which was nothing.

" Do most people not know that a salad or a half portion will have less calories?"

It's not necessarily true about the salad. The dressing may be so calorific that the salad is not a low calorie option. That's why we need calorie counts on menus.

Another reason I'm glad that I never eat at chain restaurants/cafes and support independent business - they don't have to comply with this pointless rule.
If you really want people to make healthy choices from a menu then you also need to include the fat/sugar/salt content - calories alone is only a small indicator. But then, like you OP, I only eat out occasionally so would always choose what I fancy from the menu (usually something I wouldn't cook at home) so calories on the menu would not sway my choice.

At the end of the day what we eat is our responsibility. It helps if we are given information on the food that we eat - from calories to allergens to labels like gluten free.

It means we can make choices...but it is our choice.

@Gwenhwyfar

" just because big bags of crisps are on 2 for 1 it doesn’t mean you have to eat both bags-"

No, but it means that if you buy 1 you're paying twice as much per crisp than someone who buys 2 so you're being penalised. Same with my example above of the meal deal with chocolate bar - wasn't available at all to someone who didn't want the chocolate bar.

So give the second one to someone else or keep it for another time? It’s really not rocket science.

Lots of EDs are about control, not about a desire to be thin and attractive, it's a way to gain control. to feel that something is within your power to control. promoting / normalising the need to control your calorie intake by printing it on menus is incredibly damaging.

with food the focus should always be on fueling health and strength and taking pleasure in taste, or the communal aspect of sharing a good meal with friends and family.

we should be more interested in the provenance of our food rather than purely the calorific content. Some calorie dense food is good for you, some low calorie food is devoid of nutrition

[quote Tulipblacksmith]@JedEye

Good analogy.

Perhaps there will be three groups of people

Group A) generally make healthy choices if possible (so probably not overweight). The labels will help group A.

Group B) overweight people who don’t care about calories (so not effective even though this was brought in to persuade group B to be more mindful)

Group C) people with eating disorders for whom this information will be detrimental.

All in all, will probably achieve the same as what the warnings on cigarette packets did for smokers. Which was nothing.[/quote]
What about group a bis, overweight people who DO care about calories. Add Group A and Group A bis together and you have a majority.

"Some calorie dense food is good for you, some low calorie food is devoid of nutrition"

Sure, but nobody is being prevented from eating salmon and avocado, they are simply being given information on the calorie content of various foods.

I think it’s also a massive deflection on the root problems such as families not having enough money to buy high quality foods, vegetables and fruit.

Cheap, nasty readily available fast foods are cheaper and more readily available to lower income families that are especially strapped for time to cook from scratch.

There’s a much wider issue here than plonking calories on menu’s.

"with food the focus should always be on fueling health and strength and taking pleasure in taste, or the communal aspect of sharing a good meal with friends and family."

That's just a personal opinion. People can decide for themselves what they want to focus on. Sharing with family is not relevant for me, for example.

I actually quite like it, I feel like I can control what I eat

@Gwenhwyfar

"Some calorie dense food is good for you, some low calorie food is devoid of nutrition"

Sure, but nobody is being prevented from eating salmon and avocado, they are simply being given information on the calorie content of various foods.

Many can’t afford those at the moment, sadly.

@Tillsforthrills

I think it’s also a massive deflection on the root problems such as families not having enough money to buy high quality foods, vegetables and fruit.

Cheap, nasty readily available fast foods are cheaper and more readily available to lower income families that are especially strapped for time to cook from scratch.

There’s a much wider issue here than plonking calories on menu’s.

Yes, but that doesn't mean calories can't be helpful.

I eat pretty carefully, day to day. Nothing excessive, I try to eat a balanced diet. Sticking calories on menus is rubbish for me (and probably restaurants!) I was due to go out last week and had a look at the menu online. The calories being listed really stressed me out. We decided to stay in and cook instead. A few friends have said similar. I probably consumed the same amount of calories at home. For me, psychologically, having the calories listed like that will stop me eating out.

@Figmentofmyimagination

The other slightly tacky thing about this is that imposing the requirement only on establishments with a large workforce necessarily means that only the high street chain restaurants that are visited by the hoi polloi like you and me, who can’t be trusted by the nudge unit to make good decisions, are impacted - not the kinds of places frequented by conservative politicians. It is all so patronising.

That's not the reason though. A standalone pub doesn't have the resources to do this. A big chain does. And lots of us eat at Pizza Express AND local pubs.

@Gwenhwyfar

Apart from the aspects of nutrition, health, taste, sharing with friends and family, what is important to you about food?

I'm not overweight but it's certainly made me think about choices... some of my favourites are over 1100kcal!

I like the idea because I've had EDs at both ends of the spectrum. This would enable me to enjoy something without feeling the need to restrict hugely afterwards, assume I've failed miserably and go completely overboard for days, decide to have something 'lighter' without inadvertently being caught out (as people were with the McDonald's salads) or avoid eating out altogether because you don't know exactly what you're getting and can't trust it.

The knowledge gives me the power to make informed choices. And the freedom to decide.

Interesting that people think it will be 'bad for people with eating disorders'. I am technically diagnosed with anorexia, though to be honest if I were diagnosed today it would be arfid/autism. It's nothing to do with body image. I don't even own a full length mirror. Its about correctness, control, anxiety and numbers. This makes me 100% more able to eat out in a restaurant.

@Gwenhwyfar

" Do most people not know that a salad or a half portion will have less calories?"

It's not necessarily true about the salad. The dressing may be so calorific that the salad is not a low calorie option. That's why we need calorie counts on menus.

The dressing isn’t an intrinsic part of salad but in any case 25ml of pure oil is only about 200 calories.

@Gwenhwyfar. Agree with you on that point, I actually like the calories on menus.

I have struggled with an eating disorder and I would find this helpful but we obviously don’t all work the same.

I still think ultimately it is a positive thing and most places I visit already had this in place

[quote Tulipblacksmith]@JedEye

Good analogy.

Perhaps there will be three groups of people

Group A) generally make healthy choices if possible (so probably not overweight). The labels will help group A.

Group B) overweight people who don’t care about calories (so not effective even though this was brought in to persuade group B to be more mindful)

Group C) people with eating disorders for whom this information will be detrimental.

All in all, will probably achieve the same as what the warnings on cigarette packets did for smokers. Which was nothing.[/quote]
I fall into group A (as do most of my social circle) and definitely don't find them helpful. Those I have spoken to have said the same.

To me, it seems they are only helpful for a few.

The consensus on this thread is very different to what I've heard in real life

@Blimecory - really?

I think nowadays people should be aware of nutritional values of food as a lot of people are still unaware and make bad choices, I know I’ve done!

Yes, a meal out can be an occasional treat but with me and boyfriend/friends it’s at least bi monthly if not more. I’m not going to sit at the table and MFP my meal and I’d forget when I got home!

I also have an under active thyroid which means I can find it hard to lose weight, so nutritional values and calories could keep me on track with healthy eating. Same for lots of people with/without health conditions.

@Gwenhwyfar

"a green bean dish it was over a 1,000 calories"

Wow. green beans cooked in a sea of oil or something?
Shows why this is helpful.

Blimey! I think, as with the "sugar tax", it might encourage some restaurants to reformulate their meals. Do we really need so much sugar and salt in things - both ready meals and restaurant meals? And cream? I have a recipe for a curry, you use the curry paste and coconut milk but the recipe also says you should put cream and sugar in! It tastes absolutely fine without both of those things.