Panorama( Young families Struggling)

[dottydodah]

Did anyone see this last evening? A lady with 2 small DC and a husband working as a Research Scientist was struggling with bills .Another young Mum in tears as her energy bill was so high.A third lady (working as a Nurse) not able to run a car. How will they manage to keep going? Surely Govt could do more?

@Cosmos123 But if she only had 2 children she would only have to pay for childcare for 2 which, obviously, would be less than for 3.

In the picture in the paper one of the children (probably the eldest) didn't look that young so not sure they need child care.

Yes she likely was in a relationship when she had the children but, I ask again, why have 3?

Everyone with a brain knows circumstances can change so don't take on more than you are likely to be able to cope with.

My circumstances did change in that I was unable to work but we coped because we were sensible.

[quote mydogisthebest]**@Cosmos123 But if she only had 2 children she would only have to pay for childcare for 2 which, obviously, would be less than for 3.

In the picture in the paper one of the children (probably the eldest) didn't look that young so not sure they need child care.

Yes she likely was in a relationship when she had the children but, I ask again, why have 3?

Everyone with a brain knows circumstances can change so don't take on more than you are likely to be able to cope with.

My circumstances did change in that I was unable to work but we coped because we were sensible.[/quote]
Why have 2- people struggle with 2 kids. People judge having 3 because they don’t want 3, because with 2 your children have a sibling

Why have 2- people struggle with 2 kids.

People struggle with 1 kid..honestly for people in poverty, if you can't afford to feed 3 kids, you can't afford to feed 1 and probably yourselves as well. It's not like it costs triple to feed 3 kids as opposed to 1 kid, there is economies of scale. It's why some singles' weekly shop is £40 but a small family can be £60-70. If you are short because of extra £20, you are going to struggle either way.

People who choose to stop at one (like me) do so because they want to give each child their own room (which in London can add 200-300k to the price of a flat/house, or the cost of loft conversion), cost of holidays i.e. long haul flight tickets, cost of activities, cost of funding university/private school as well as perhaps wanting more free time and other reasons unrelated to finances (for example wanting to start a family later). None of these are that material to low income households. With the exception of childcare but low income families get support with childcare and free hours at an earlier age. Plus if there is any sort of age gap, it wouldn't be 3 on full childcare as at least 1 would be in school full time..

Stories like this poor nurse will affect us all over time.
If this is happening all over the UK we will be left with more health problems and even more strain on the NHS.
Warm well fed people are healthy people.
Physical and mental health as a nation will decline, malnourishment, hypothermia, infections. Sickness from work, school it all has a domino effect.
These families are older peoples workers, carers etc in years to come and its awful.
None of us have asked to be plunged into poverty. This woman ( who a lot of you were clapping for like seals on your doorsteps) has risked her health, risked getting long covid to stay in work and now is in poverty.
How easily you all forget when she is seen as a burden.
She could be getting universal credit to work in Tescos and prop up a huge profit making organisation, would that be preferable?
The smug ones on here will be affected very soon when they need medical treatment, but the system is so over burdened with sick poor people it will take months.
It will affect them when crimes if all kinds soar and their band D council tax trebles to cope with the costs associated with policing and law and order.
It will affect them when we descend into a totally divided society of awful human beings with zero empathy that think its ok for a celeb to spend 3 million on a wedding when kids starve.
A sexist government where women are punished for having kids having to juggle working with unafforable childcare that leaves them poor.
This corrupt sleazy government has done this and the smug ones stand shoulder to shoulder with them.

its not like it costs triple to feed 3 kids than to feed 1

No but it more than doubles it. It's a mumsnet myth that a third child makes no difference, you'll manage somehow, bullshit, bullshit. 3 children is a really expensive life choice.

@Angelswithflirtyfaces well said.

Sorry peeps, no matter how rich you are, you are likely to end up in diapers at some point. If there isn't enough staff to change your diapers because they can't afford to get to work or it doesn't pay to work or they don't have childcare that enables them to work, you are going to be demented, sitting there in your crap and there is little anyone can do about it. The only way you can get out of it is maybe moving abroad to a place with cheaper labour (but probably away from your kids).

Ditto with any medical treatment you need. And no private healthcare is not a get out of jail free card. I have private healthcare and they will refer to NHS if they don't think they can deal with it.

@Porcupineintherough why not just have 1 then.you fulfil your biological instinct and it's the cheapest option.

Worth noting it's not just China who was trying to control population size. Many Asian countries were trying to encourage parents to stop at 2, but weren't so heavy-handed. But it was when average families ranged from 4-7 kids. Having 3 kids as opposed to 2 kids isn't really going to make a huge difference.

@desiringonlychild2022 absolute rubbish to say "if you can't afford to feed 3 kids, you can't afford to feed 1". Of course 3 cost more than 1. Not just in food but also in clothes. Only so many clothes can be handed down, particularly if all the children are not the same sex.

Also child care will cost more for 3 than 1.

@mydogisthebest food and charity shop clothes don't cost very much... If you are struggling with that, you would be struggling either way.. they account for maybe 10% of my outgoings and we are not high earners at all (6% of our combined income with DH's new job). Even if you doubled it, it would be 20% and you shouldn't spend more than 30% of income on housing (sadly not the case for many people).

If you struggle with food now, it's appalling unless you are feeding an army. It's why it makes the news because food is not expensive. but yet people are struggling. Housing in cities and the SE is expensive esp family sized housing. Eating out is expensive. Holidays can be expensive. But not supermarket food from Lidl and Aldi. Even if inflation hits 10%. I feel so sad that people are struggling.

I have just watched the programme and did feel very sorry for the young mum whose partner we did not see.

I can understand that although they get just over £2,000 a month they are struggling, mainly because they are renting. Rents are just so expensive.

The couple in Wales have a mortgage though and houses are pretty cheap in Wales so doubt their mortgage can be that much. We weren't told what else they are spending their money on apart from fuel for the motorbike and car.

Also the nurse has a mortgage and they said "after paying her mortgage and bills she has £80 a week left". £80 a week may not be masses but it is not that bad if all bills are paid.

These sorts of programmes never tell us what actual outgoings the people have. Have they got debts? Are they paying a lot each month for a phone, full Sky package or what?

Also the nurse has a mortgage and they said "after paying her mortgage and bills she has £80 a week left". £80 a week may not be masses but it is not that bad if all bills are paid what planet are you living on £80 for a family to eat from- what if a child needs something for school or has a birthday. Seriously this isn’t £80 left after putting savings aside.

£80 a week is not bad if all bills are paid for

Right so that will cover
Petrol to get to work
Car maintenance
Car insurance
House insurance
General house maintenance
Kids school uniforms/clothes
Kids shoes
School lunches
School expenses (day trips, swimming, mufti days etc)
All groceries
Mums clothes / shoes
Emergencies like washing machine breaking down

Really you think so?

@MissyB1

£80 a week is not bad if all bills are paid for

Right so that will cover
Petrol to get to work
Car maintenance
Car insurance
House insurance
General house maintenance
Kids school uniforms/clothes
Kids shoes
School lunches
School expenses (day trips, swimming, mufti days etc)
All groceries
Mums clothes / shoes
Emergencies like washing machine breaking down

Really you think so?

I felt so bad for the poor bloke who had filled his car up and it cost £80 and he said well that's a days wages gone.

Lovely to see people condemning her in case she has any luxuries or god forbid a basic sky package.
Maybe she should go to work come home and huddle under a blanket with candle?
Since when did we all sign up to live in Dickensian Britain again. She is a professional working woman I am pretty sure this is not the life she envisaged for herself having undergone years of training?
No one knows when our circumstances could change but people quibbling over a few treats is just shite.

houses are pretty cheap in Wales so doubt their mortgage can be that much

you are wrong

@MissyB1

£80 a week is not bad if all bills are paid for

Right so that will cover
Petrol to get to work
Car maintenance
Car insurance
House insurance
General house maintenance
Kids school uniforms/clothes
Kids shoes
School lunches
School expenses (day trips, swimming, mufti days etc)
All groceries
Mums clothes / shoes
Emergencies like washing machine breaking down

Really you think so?

She didn't have a car. She said that, only a bike.

So no petrol, no car maintenance, no car insurance.

Mum would not need to buy clothes or shoes very often. I rarely buy clothes or shoes and when I do I buy in charity shops or from ebay so very cheap.

Childrens clothes are cheap in places like Asda, Primark, charity shops.

House insurance is not very expensive. Mine is £10 a month for buildings and contents insurance.

People on low income get help with the cost of school lunches don't they? My neighbours do.

If there is no spare money the children can't go on day trips etc. Not great but many children do not go as their parents cannot afford it.

Food is one of the most expensive things but you can eat pretty well cheaply if you plan, don't waste food, shop in markets or cheaper shops.

@Angelswithflirtyfaces

Lovely to see people condemning her in case she has any luxuries or god forbid a basic sky package. Maybe she should go to work come home and huddle under a blanket with candle? Since when did we all sign up to live in Dickensian Britain again. She is a professional working woman I am pretty sure this is not the life she envisaged for herself having undergone years of training? No one knows when our circumstances could change but people quibbling over a few treats is just shite.

What I *@actually* said was that we were not told what other spending they were making.

There is a pretty big difference in price between the basic Sky package and the full film, sport etc package although even the basic one is a rip off.

If she can't manage she needs to work full time and not part time. 3 days a week is a luxury most cannot afford

@DuvetHugger

houses are pretty cheap in Wales so doubt their mortgage can be that much

you are wrong

Really? So how much do you reckon their house cost and how much would that mortgage be?

Houses are, on the whole, much cheaper in Wales than in other parts of the country.

I know people who live in houses in Kent, Essex and St. Albans. None of their mortgages are very expensive because of the low interest rates

@mydogisthebest
No not all people in low incomes or who are struggling get free school meals, that’s a common misconception. You see I was that struggling single parent nurse once. I didn’t tried to get help, I asked for help with my rent and for school dinners, got turned down for both. Got shouted at by ds headteacher because I couldn’t afford the charge for school swimming or day trips. I was told parents like me spoilt it for all the kids because the school might have to cancel those things altogether.
And my kids were dressed in clothes my colleagues donated from their kids. Don’t you think kids might like something new sometimes though? Or do you think that’s cheeky and entitled?
And no you can’t “eat cheaply” if you don’t have the money in the first place. Can I also point out that if you don’t have a car you can’t bulk buy, so you pay more than people who have transport.
It’s easy to blame the poor for being poor.

@mydogisthebest I earn the equivilant of a nurses salary. For full time now with fuel, NI hikes, pension and tax I lose a day and a halfs wages. I dont have childcare thank goodness. If she was given a better pay rise ( same as our wonderful, hard working non partying M.Ps got) didnt have to pay for parking at work or prohibitally expensive childcare maybe she could actually afford to go full time?
Its very easy to make everything so black and white behind a keyboard but she is a person, with a life and I am guessing she matters very much to some people.
She could of course go on benefits altogether, not use her skills, get her rent paid etc. Is that preferable to a life of working poverty?

@dottydodah

Blossomtoes I know .it just smacks of them and us situation .We are not wealthy but managing OK with a sensible budget . Thing is one ladies bill was going up by £50 pm! how is this even possible?

My MIL's monthly payment for her electricity (all-electric house) has gone up from £120 pcm to £260 pcm.

She's a pensioner, in her early 80s and on pension credit. Luckily, 2 of her children are very well off and will help her out, but that payment is around a third of her monthly income.

Money was tight for coal miners post war (filling up on homegrown potatoes, second hand clothes, no holidays, no sick pay etc) but my grandparents had a council house in walking distance of the pit and free coal from the colliery so that’s three big inflationary costs they didn’t need to worry about. The cost squeeze on housing and fuel/energy is the real kicker these days, however much people try to cut back on discretionary spending.

The whole conversation is so pointless. 'Bills' mean nothing, everyone has different definition of what bills are.

For me it's everything that NEEDS to be paid, so of course that includes food, even essential clothes, insurance, clubs etc....

In this case, £80 a week to have at leisure is very reasonable. I certainly had less than that.

If the £80 left is only after mortgage and gas and electricity, then yes, it's clearly a problem.

Then there's everything in between.

Mum would not need to buy clothes or shoes very often. I rarely buy clothes or shoes and when I do I buy in charity shops or from ebay so very cheap.Childrens clothes are cheap in places like Asda, Primary, charity shops this is fine for young children- my 14yr old nephew is in Medium mens and has a size 11 shoe.
As for free school dinners - the threshold is ridiculously low

These sorts of programmes never tell us what actual outgoings the people have. Have they got debts? Are they paying a lot each month for a phone, full Sky package or what?

Actually, right at the start it showed a spreadsheet with the Welsh family’s outgoings. I didn’t examine it but you could see it had pretty cheap phone contracts, and it looked like just Netflix and bt internet for entertainment stuff (but it only came up very quickly, but you could pause it if so inclined).