Eco protesting

[Boomerwang]

Apparently there's a bill going forward to give police more powers to deal with protests and vigils that cause 'serious unease' or 'serious annoyance' and this bill has been blocked several times by Keir Starmer previously.

AIBU to think police should be granted more powers to stop protestors from blocking access points? I fully agree the right to protest must be protected, but what about when it affects others?

I'd argue to go even further and stop the waste of taxpayer's money by having to involve the police at all but then I know people would get seriously hurt this way and that's not okay.

At the same time, I wonder how effective these protests are by forcing us to confront what's going on and whether ultimately they are doing something good? Would they achieve results by sitting to the side of access points instead? Would anyone listen if daily life were uninterrupted? Does anyone stop to think of the cause just because they were physically stopped? Surely it's impossible to sympathise when you're angry?

Personally protesting is something I read about in the news but it doesn't prompt me to reflect on my contribution or research further.

Has anyone been affected by protests before and did it make you consider environment and ecology after the event?

@Momijin

No, climate change is here. This is climate and not weather. The frequency and extent of weather events happening is unprecedented. Listen to what scientists are telling us. What we are experiencing ourselves.

What needs to be done?

It seems to me that we must leave our entire consumerist lives behind, all move to huge crowded cities, embrace veganism and dismantle capitalism.

This is going to be rather hard to achieve, isn't it?

You can't assume everyone shares the climate angst, plenty of people, me included, couldn't care less about it. I ge uiny do not care if the world ends, I deplore waste and hate shops like Primark and the ghastly stylist on Lorraine who says this nifty little bag comes in at £2 and Lorraine has an orgasm. Throwaway culture is immoral and we should not be producing clothes or food for below their value. I have a lot of shoes and bags and they are all hand made, I never buy tat or poor quality. But the hysteria about oil? Genuinely don't care.

Keep fossil fuels in the ground. Add environmental costs to products and services - from manufacturing to disposal. There are many solutions and not one solution will fit all. But it will mean a nice life for the many and not for the few. And what you don't get is that we will have to change anyway. The way we live, burn and waste isn't sustainable. But by the time we are forced to chance, we will have hit irreversible tipping points.

Piss off. I happen to know many of them. They are teachers, doctors, mums, grandparents, scientists, marketeers, filmmakers, vets, musicians, priests, rabbi, engineers, Every activist I know is very busy with work and families and take time out of their very busy lives to do this.

They are stopping people from working, you know, making the money to keep a roof over their heads. They have stopped ambulances reaching hospitals and I bet it would be different if one of their loved ones needed an ambulance. And as for their new idea of door knocking, they can piss off.

Momign I happen to know many of them. They are teachers, doctors, mums, grandparents, scientists, marketeers, filmmakers, vets, musicians, priests, rabbi, engineers, Every activist I know is very busy with work and families and take time out of their very busy lives to do this.

They must all be superstar cyclists too, in order to cycle to their demos not using fossil fuels or adding to climate change by using polluting public transport!

I'm thinking about Extinction rebellion, are they linked to the insulation group

@SucculentChalice

Momign I happen to know many of them. They are teachers, doctors, mums, grandparents, scientists, marketeers, filmmakers, vets, musicians, priests, rabbi, engineers, Every activist I know is very busy with work and families and take time out of their very busy lives to do this.

They must all be superstar cyclists too, in order to cycle to their demos not using fossil fuels or adding to climate change by using polluting public transport!

Individuals can't make the changes necessary by changing their own habits - not enough people doing it plus our infrastructure etc isn't designed for it.. It has to be systemic change. Policies, subsidies, tax etc

At the moment everything is geared to protect the interests of the very rich.

The right to peaceful protest - even if it does involve inconveniencing some people - is a vital part of a functioning democracy and should be protected at all costs.

All those sneering at people who do get out there and protest might have something which they care about enough to get off their lazy arses about one day, and they'll be glad that the right exists.

Momijn maybe they're race walkers then?

Individuals can't make the changes necessary by changing their own habits - not enough people doing it plus our infrastructure etc isn't designed for it.. It has to be systemic change. Policies, subsidies, tax etc

So what you're saying is they used fossil fuels to get there.

At the moment everything is geared to protect the interests of the very rich.
I agree and that's why buggering things up for ordinary people by blockading refineries or gluing yourself to a motorway is just about the stupidest and most ineffective way to get the very rich to act differently.

You do seem to be proposing the overthrow of capitalism and I agree that will probably have to happen for the centralised control needed to arrest climate change. It's a very hard sell though for people who are used to democracy.

@CapMarvel

The right to peaceful protest - even if it does involve inconveniencing some people - is a vital part of a functioning democracy and should be protected at all costs.

All those sneering at people who do get out there and protest might have something which they care about enough to get off their lazy arses about one day, and they'll be glad that the right exists.

Perhaps they are too busy commuting and having to be in work every day

I was at the protests this weekend. I am 'normal hard working people' just like nearly everyone else there. I am a single parent, I am busy going to work every day. But I went because the climate emergency is going to directly impact on all of our children, and I am very scared for their future.

And I flew in on my broomstick, so no fossil fuels used.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

Individuals can't make the changes necessary by changing their own habits - not enough people doing it plus our infrastructure etc isn't designed for it.. It has to be systemic change. Policies, subsidies, tax etc

So what you're saying is they used fossil fuels to get there.

So?

Such an utterly inane argument. If driving to a protest using 10 litres of petrol helps lead to a low/zero carbon future down the road obviously that's justifiable.

"Perhaps they are too busy commuting and having to be in work every day"

You have heard of weekends and annual leave, I assume?

Such an utterly inane argument. If driving to a protest using 10 litres of petrol helps lead to a low/zero carbon future down the road obviously that's justifiable.

Whatever makes you happy. I'll continue to believe they are a lazy bunch of hypocrites who prevent people from earning a living, receiving medical care etc. Emma Thompson flying in for a protest, the leader of the insulate lot not having insulation, blocking public transport which sure defeats the object of trying to get people to use less fuel. Idiots.

@CapMarvel

"Perhaps they are too busy commuting and having to be in work every day"

You have heard of weekends and annual leave, I assume?

Some people can only take leave at certain times but take your point about weekends

It's the pig headed attitude that makes people not give a shit about the cause.
If I can't get to work I don't get paid.
If these protests cause me personal hardship do you think I'm really going to give a shit about the middle class fuckwits glueing themselves to tarmac?
I certainly don't give a fuck when they can afford the time off, can probably afford insulation, a hybrid car and children.
Fuck. THAT.

Such an utterly inane argument. If driving to a protest using 10 litres of petrol helps lead to a low/zero carbon future down the road obviously that's justifiable.

Not really. I cycle to work and to the shops and other stuff where possible. If I can do it, others can. What would be useful would be if they protested for more cycle and safe pedestrian provision. I've had an awful argument with the local authority who refuse to cut the grass verges so I can walk on them. There isn't even a footpath never mind a cycle path, or a bridge or underpass for the local trunk road. These things are standard in other countries so it would be useful if protestors could actually protest about things that would directly help everyone help the environment, rather than their own petty issues which make them somehow feel speshul.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

Such an utterly inane argument. If driving to a protest using 10 litres of petrol helps lead to a low/zero carbon future down the road obviously that's justifiable.

Whatever makes you happy. I'll continue to believe they are a lazy bunch of hypocrites who prevent people from earning a living, receiving medical care etc. Emma Thompson flying in for a protest, the leader of the insulate lot not having insulation, blocking public transport which sure defeats the object of trying to get people to use less fuel. Idiots.

Sure, believe that if you want.

You're wrong, but feel free to fill your boots.

@SucculentChalice

Such an utterly inane argument. If driving to a protest using 10 litres of petrol helps lead to a low/zero carbon future down the road obviously that's justifiable.

Not really. I cycle to work and to the shops and other stuff where possible. If I can do it, others can. What would be useful would be if they protested for more cycle and safe pedestrian provision. I've had an awful argument with the local authority who refuse to cut the grass verges so I can walk on them. There isn't even a footpath never mind a cycle path, or a bridge or underpass for the local trunk road. These things are standard in other countries so it would be useful if protestors could actually protest about things that would directly help everyone help the environment, rather than their own petty issues which make them somehow feel speshul.

To get world leaders into a room obviously involves them flying, but if that means in 5/10/whatever years CO2 levels are reduced then that is clearly worth it. Transition doesn't happen overnight. Likewise if protesters travel by car then that doesn't mean you can just ignore any arguments they may or may not have. It's lazy at best.

...to suggest that they are hypocrites with nothing worthwhile to say.

They are knowingly targeting the general public causing as much hardship and anguish as they possibly can. In doing so they are bringing their cause into disrepute and will lose support for a worthy cause.

Why are they not targeting the political establishment?

They could protest at MPs constituency offices and surgeries. They could protest at the hustings for and at the local elections on 5th May. If they want to chain themselves together and glue themselves to something then choose the gates to Downing Street or the gates to the underground car park at the Palace of Westminster. There will be a multitude of Jubilee events in June they could disrupt.

@daimbarsatemydogsbone

At the moment everything is geared to protect the interests of the very rich. I agree and that's why buggering things up for ordinary people by blockading refineries or gluing yourself to a motorway is just about the stupidest and most ineffective way to get the very rich to act differently.

You do seem to be proposing the overthrow of capitalism and I agree that will probably have to happen for the centralised control needed to arrest climate change. It's a very hard sell though for people who are used to democracy.

It isn't though. That's what they said about every activist and protest throughout history, and that is the only way that change came about. It was always unpopular at the time, ridiculed and life risking but we are all happy with the changes that were made because of them.

History gives us examples of campaigns that both changed the geopolitical landscape to those that although unsuccessful, highlighted oppression. Spartacus’ uprising, the Protestant Reformation, the Boston Tea Party, the Haitian Revolution, the Storming of the Bastille, Nat Turner’s Rebellion, the Hungarian Revolution, Gandhi’s Salt March, the Stonewall Riots, Vietnam war protests, Tiananmen Square, the anti- Apartheid movement are just a few examples of struggles throughout history that represent the human need to make their own choices, to be free from oppression in all forms as well as to be given a voice.

I agree with the right to protest.

But I firmly belief that it is essential that every citizen should have the right to go to work and support his/her family. And that protesters, no matter how certain they are that their particular cause is important, should be allowed to prevent people from doing, or getting to, their jobs.

I also believe that people should have the right to reach medical treatment and be reached by others who are trying to give necessary support, unimpeded by people's protests.