Eco protesting

[Boomerwang]

Apparently there's a bill going forward to give police more powers to deal with protests and vigils that cause 'serious unease' or 'serious annoyance' and this bill has been blocked several times by Keir Starmer previously.

AIBU to think police should be granted more powers to stop protestors from blocking access points? I fully agree the right to protest must be protected, but what about when it affects others?

I'd argue to go even further and stop the waste of taxpayer's money by having to involve the police at all but then I know people would get seriously hurt this way and that's not okay.

At the same time, I wonder how effective these protests are by forcing us to confront what's going on and whether ultimately they are doing something good? Would they achieve results by sitting to the side of access points instead? Would anyone listen if daily life were uninterrupted? Does anyone stop to think of the cause just because they were physically stopped? Surely it's impossible to sympathise when you're angry?

Personally protesting is something I read about in the news but it doesn't prompt me to reflect on my contribution or research further.

Has anyone been affected by protests before and did it make you consider environment and ecology after the event?

@crossstitchingnana

Nope. People need to be able to protest, as long as life isn't threatened.

But life has been threatened when the stupid twats blocked the motorway and ambulances couldn't get through. It's a shame someone didn't just pull them off the road whether they were glued or not.

I saw last week they are planning on knocking on doors to 'engage' with people. They can engage with my door when it's shut in their faces.

They can protest, but they get no support from me. In fact I go out of my way now not to support

The police do need more powers, which they then need to use, to move them on

The courts also need to back the police up with jail sentences for all involved, not wishy washy fines that won’t get paid

Views like the above and others on this thread are incredibly short sighted. Today they are applied to people gluing themselves to roads. Tomorrow they're applied to people protesting about energy prices or food shortages. Next month to anyone who doesn't think Boris is the Best.

Governments have shown time and time again they are not willing to do what it needs to tackle climate change (and it's not that they can't because they've proven they can do all sorts during covid). There is no other option, if we don't change now we will be fucked, truly fucked. All the effects we are currently seeing (increases in frequency and severity of floods, fires, heat, storms, etc) is from a 1.2 degree rise in gmst. Current policies will result in a 2.5-3 degree rise and with it the displacement of 3-4 billion people as well as the loss of huge swathes of food producing regions. You think the last 2 years have been hard? If we don't change now that will be the best it will ever be again.

In fact these people made me want to throw my roof insulation out of the window.

🙄 talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face!

@Thebestwaytoscareatory

They can protest, but they get no support from me. In fact I go out of my way now not to support

The police do need more powers, which they then need to use, to move them on

The courts also need to back the police up with jail sentences for all involved, not wishy washy fines that won’t get paid

Views like the above and others on this thread are incredibly short sighted. Today they are applied to people gluing themselves to roads. Tomorrow they're applied to people protesting about energy prices or food shortages. Next month to anyone who doesn't think Boris is the Best.

Governments have shown time and time again they are not willing to do what it needs to tackle climate change (and it's not that they can't because they've proven they can do all sorts during covid). There is no other option, if we don't change now we will be fucked, truly fucked. All the effects we are currently seeing (increases in frequency and severity of floods, fires, heat, storms, etc) is from a 1.2 degree rise in gmst. Current policies will result in a 2.5-3 degree rise and with it the displacement of 3-4 billion people as well as the loss of huge swathes of food producing regions. You think the last 2 years have been hard? If we don't change now that will be the best it will ever be again.

What should the government do today to address these issues?

I'm glad there's still people about that have the will and motivation to protest about stuff they care about. Fed up of the short sighted sitting on their arse worrying about slight inconvenience or whinging about it even though they've never been directly affected by any kind of protest. There's nothing more inconvenient than a planet so polluted it cannot continue to sustain life.

Yes protest should be allowed, but it needs intelligent people to lead .... what's the point in stupid twats gluing themselves to roads or otherwise blocking traffic, which stops hardworking ordinary people getting to work, takes police/NHS staff away from more important work, causes more use of petrol, increases pollution from standing traffic, etc etc? Idiotic. They should be targeting politicians/oil company execs/decision makers/banks etc (obvs with research beforehand), as THOSE are the people who are more deserving of being inconvenienced and are the ones more likely to be responsible.

@SucculentChalice

I always wonder how they get to their protest sites. Do they all cycle/walk miles? Or are they all conveniently located next to public transport? How does the protesting affect the work they do and therefore the taxes they pay? I know if I had my face plastered on social media or received a criminal penalty, it would be gross misconduct and I would be sacked.

Yes

I know a couple of people involved in this group and they are privileged, they don't work on a payroll as such and have dhs in good jobs so tbh they get on my nerves

@ginghamstarfish

Yes protest should be allowed, but it needs intelligent people to lead .... what's the point in stupid twats gluing themselves to roads or otherwise blocking traffic, which stops hardworking ordinary people getting to work, takes police/NHS staff away from more important work, causes more use of petrol, increases pollution from standing traffic, etc etc? Idiotic. They should be targeting politicians/oil company execs/decision makers/banks etc (obvs with research beforehand), as THOSE are the people who are more deserving of being inconvenienced and are the ones more likely to be responsible.

I agree with this. It's the people who just want to be able to go to work so they can get paid that are being inconvenienced. The cause may be noble to try to protect the future, but many people are struggling with the now, and are not in any position to be able to make the changes the protesters want to see. The message needs to reach the right people, who can take action, but the methods they are using aren't doing that (and I admit I don't know what they SHOULD do but it's not what they are doing now)

What should the government do today to address these issues?

Resign.

@Thebestwaytoscareatory

What should the government do today to address these issues?

Resign.

Well I agree up to a point as I have never voted Tory. It's not clear to me how having a GE tomorrow would address the concerns of ER and the other glue yourself to somethings.

I've encountered protesters outside of our local registry office, they were not blocking access for general folk so I had no problem with them. They did grab several staff members on their way in/out but were very polite, I think this perfectly acceptable. The ones causing massive disruption the the public, stopping them getting to work or seeking medical help are just arseholes.

@ginghamstarfish

Yes protest should be allowed, but it needs intelligent people to lead .... what's the point in stupid twats gluing themselves to roads or otherwise blocking traffic, which stops hardworking ordinary people getting to work, takes police/NHS staff away from more important work, causes more use of petrol, increases pollution from standing traffic, etc etc? Idiotic. They should be targeting politicians/oil company execs/decision makers/banks etc (obvs with research beforehand), as THOSE are the people who are more deserving of being inconvenienced and are the ones more likely to be responsible.

I also agree with this.

Of course they should have the right to protest and I really do see the desperation and panic when some of them are talking, I also believe that the climate crisis is a very worrying emergency that needs action immediately. BUT!! The way they are going about it is ridiculous. They are being so irresponsible stopping emergency workers through, a kid sitting in a traffic jam and missing school isn't learning anything about the environment and as gingham said, it's creating more pollution. Their methods are brainless and not thought through. So yes, I believe the police should have more power to remove protestors in certain circumstances.

Might be slightly off track, but there has also been an issue with hypocrisy for some of these protestors, I only vaguely remember the details (don't know if anyone else remembers better than me?) but one of the Extinction Rebellion members on GMB a couple of months ago was preaching that everyone should insulate their homes, but he himself hadn't insulated his home, in fact it turned out to be extremely inefficient, so he stormed off. This further makes them look like total fools & whilst they are getting attention, it's all of the wrong sort.

The government already have the powers they need to stop the protests they just choose not to use them with these particular protesters.

You need only look at how protests the government don't agree with are policed to see the difference.

Go and have a look at the BLM and the week later anti BLM protests in 2020 for a striking example.

@daimbarsatemydogsbone

If you use less energy, it costs less money. If you insulate, you use less energy.

Standing charges are another matter.

Not really - the savings are much smaller if standing charges make up a higher proportion of your bill, and if insulation cuts the income of energy companies, the regulator might agree they can increase charges. It's not a simple equation.

Please understand I don't (and haven't) supported this government. I voted Labour last time.

So just to be clear - you wouldn't want to see reduced energy usage and associated costs because of higher standing charges? I am sorry but that seems a bot confused to me. I would like to see lower energy usage both in bill terms and for climate change.

Climate change is going to cost in other ways too, such as rising premiums and repair costs, increased taxation to pay for infrastructure costs such as upgrading roads and rail networks.

So just to be clear - you wouldn't want to see reduced energy usage and associated costs because of higher standing charges?

Please tell me where I said that?

@daimbarsatemydogsbone

So just to be clear - you wouldn't want to see reduced energy usage and associated costs because of higher standing charges?

Please tell me where I said that?

I guess I am just understanding what your point is.

Yes there are lots of other issues around energy markets and priving, but I have yet to meet anyone who thinks reducing the need to turn on your boiler is a bad thing.

not understanding that should say

For the avoidance of doubt - I have stuffed my loft with insulation and the antics of ER don't make me inclined to throw it out of the window.

My sole point was in reply to the poster who had characterised it as a simplistic and guaranteed cost saving to consumers if the government "listened" to Insulate Britain. It's far from clear - that is my only point.

but I have yet to meet anyone who thinks reducing the need to turn on your boiler is a bad thing.

I agree, and I've never said otherwise.

There are protests all the time. You don't understand that they don't make the news unless they cause a nuisance like this. The world is dying. The scientists are telling us that if we don't do something now we won't have a future worth living. We can make the changes but they have to be now. The climate is causing floods, fires, wars and famine all over the world. What the protestors do is nothing compared to that. It is the only way they make the news. They would much rather be doing other stuff, trust me.

Quoting @woodhill above, "I know a couple of people involved in this group and they are privileged, they don't work on a payroll as such and have dhs in good jobs so tbh they get on my nerves".

But this is where the government /system has us over a barrel. We're all too busy working hard to make ends meet to look up. And that's the way they want us to stay. They are invested in maintaining the status quo, because it works for them.

What the protestors do is nothing compared to that. It is the only way they make the news. They would much rather be doing other stuff, trust me.

No they wouldn't, it might involve working.

@Momijin

There are protests all the time. You don't understand that they don't make the news unless they cause a nuisance like this. The world is dying. The scientists are telling us that if we don't do something now we won't have a future worth living. We can make the changes but they have to be now. The climate is causing floods, fires, wars and famine all over the world. What the protestors do is nothing compared to that. It is the only way they make the news. They would much rather be doing other stuff, trust me.

So pretty much what history tells us has been normal on this planet for its entire history - fires, floods, volcanos erupting, wars, famines, etc. Its actually a bit colder than it was prior to around 1250 - we know that because there were Norse vikings living on Greenland who died out due to the cold meaning they didn't have a long enough growing season to grow hay for their animals in winter.

But don't let hysteria get in the way of history!

And as for insulation - it has to be the easiest thing to install yourself. I really don't need a patronising attention seeking pressure group to tell me how to install something I installed years ago.

No, climate change is here. This is climate and not weather. The frequency and extent of weather events happening is unprecedented. Listen to what scientists are telling us. What we are experiencing ourselves.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

What the protestors do is nothing compared to that. It is the only way they make the news. They would much rather be doing other stuff, trust me.

No they wouldn't, it might involve working.

Piss off. I happen to know many of them. They are teachers, doctors, mums, grandparents, scientists, marketeers, filmmakers, vets, musicians, priests, rabbi, engineers, Every activist I know is very busy with work and families and take time out of their very busy lives to do this.

When you have so many clever people who personally gain absolutely nothing from doing this. When you have the world's scientists telling you what is happening, you listen and do something about it.