Eco protesting

[Boomerwang]

Apparently there's a bill going forward to give police more powers to deal with protests and vigils that cause 'serious unease' or 'serious annoyance' and this bill has been blocked several times by Keir Starmer previously.

AIBU to think police should be granted more powers to stop protestors from blocking access points? I fully agree the right to protest must be protected, but what about when it affects others?

I'd argue to go even further and stop the waste of taxpayer's money by having to involve the police at all but then I know people would get seriously hurt this way and that's not okay.

At the same time, I wonder how effective these protests are by forcing us to confront what's going on and whether ultimately they are doing something good? Would they achieve results by sitting to the side of access points instead? Would anyone listen if daily life were uninterrupted? Does anyone stop to think of the cause just because they were physically stopped? Surely it's impossible to sympathise when you're angry?

Personally protesting is something I read about in the news but it doesn't prompt me to reflect on my contribution or research further.

Has anyone been affected by protests before and did it make you consider environment and ecology after the event?

www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/how-climate-change-has-become-a-deadly-threat-to-people-in-somalia-daud-jiran-3548305

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-61036465

The effects of climate change are already killing people and this is before the temperature rises predicted. The two articles above are about drought in Somalia but we have all seen footage of flooding and fires too.

Climate chaos is here and it’s only going to get worse. We do still have a small window of time to limit the worst of it.

If we don’t take drastic action now, the above will be the reality for much more of the world. Food will get harder and harder to grow, everywhere. Pollinators are dying, soil is degrading, weather is getting warmer, wetter and wilder.

Some crops have already failed here in the UK due to climate change.

This isn’t something we can ignore. This isn’t something we can wait to vote on (like with the pandemic) - this requires strong and immediate action.

Those that saw this coming have tried petitions, peaceful protest, writing to MPs, campaigning in all its forms and presenting the best scientific information to governments for 30+ years. Governments have been too invested in votes and keeping oil companies happy. Of course, oil companies have done a great job of PR, lobbying and smearing environmental scientists too. So all in all, progress has been way too slow.

Of those of you who are damning the protestors. Please, tell me what else we (the people) can do to implore our government to act in our collective best interests, other than these direct, disruptive actions and civil disobedience. What else is there that hasn’t already been tried, time and time again. I can’t see any other option than direct action and civil disobedience.

People are already dying. These protesters at least give a shit about that.

@RagingRagingAndMoreRaging

www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/how-climate-change-has-become-a-deadly-threat-to-people-in-somalia-daud-jiran-3548305

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-61036465

The effects of climate change are already killing people and this is before the temperature rises predicted. The two articles above are about drought in Somalia but we have all seen footage of flooding and fires too.

Climate chaos is here and it’s only going to get worse. We do still have a small window of time to limit the worst of it.

If we don’t take drastic action now, the above will be the reality for much more of the world. Food will get harder and harder to grow, everywhere. Pollinators are dying, soil is degrading, weather is getting warmer, wetter and wilder.

Some crops have already failed here in the UK due to climate change.

This isn’t something we can ignore. This isn’t something we can wait to vote on (like with the pandemic) - this requires strong and immediate action.

Those that saw this coming have tried petitions, peaceful protest, writing to MPs, campaigning in all its forms and presenting the best scientific information to governments for 30+ years. Governments have been too invested in votes and keeping oil companies happy. Of course, oil companies have done a great job of PR, lobbying and smearing environmental scientists too. So all in all, progress has been way too slow.

Of those of you who are damning the protestors. Please, tell me what else we (the people) can do to implore our government to act in our collective best interests, other than these direct, disruptive actions and civil disobedience. What else is there that hasn’t already been tried, time and time again. I can’t see any other option than direct action and civil disobedience.

People are already dying. These protesters at least give a shit about that.

If you believe this is serious, the last thing you should want is protesters purposefully alienating the public.

Do you seriously think pissing people off will somehow force the government to do what you want? Or make those same people put pressure on the government to do what you want?

Frankly, their actions suggest they don't give a shit at all.

@Momijin

Such shortsightedness and ignorance will be the end of us all

Yeah, nice accusations but you've been very light on what you actually want and how it will work in practice.

You may be right about the outcome but I guarantee people gluing themselves to tube trains isn't going to help anyone.

In the words of the Beatles "you say you want a revolution - we all wanna change the world"

I blame the government, there wouldn’t be a need for protest if they started listening to common sense. We need a clear and fast track environment policy.

Disruptive protests only make me angry, tbh. They certainly don't change my attitude in a positive way toward the groups responsible. If anything, they make me feel less inclined to listen to what they have to say.

MangyInseam

I get that. I do. But again, what SHOULD they do? Everything else has been tried. For 30+ years. Civil disobedience is all that’s left.

Gilead

I blame the government, there wouldn’t be a need for protest if they started listening to common sense. We need a clear and fast track environment policy.

Me too. We (any human living on this planet that wants to avoid a mass extinction event) have nothing left to try now except civil disobedience and direct action.

MeasureTwice

TBH it’s not you they want to influence. Your opinion is irrelevant here. Im not being rude. Mine isn’t relevant either. You will have seen the protests and marches, perhaps the petitions, you may have read the scientific reports or the media coverage of them, you might have watched David Attenborough etc but if none of that made you see what is happening and what needs to be done, nothing will.

Everything that can be done to help people to understand and make changes, has been done, for well over 30 years.

Direct action and civil disobedience isn’t about changing public opinion. It’s about disruption, sending a clear message. It’s an act of deliberate defiance to try and get Governments to act in the best interests of the people.

If an otherwise law abiding, emotionally stable, professional, middle aged woman is ready to be arrested and go to prison to get her message to the Government then that says something.

I know people whose working lives have been dedicated to studying climate change and they are SCARED! They lose sleep worrying about their childrens future. Trying to figure out which country might be the safest for them (space to avoid social unrest, cooler climate to grow crops,etc). We should all be out there protesting and shouting because our Governments have sequentially chosen profits before planet and people. Across the globe. Their decisions are putting lives at risk and they KNOW it. The science could not be clearer. For years now.

Again, I’ll ask, what else can be done, other than nothing - which in the face of very possible complete extinction of the human race, seems a bit silly?

Boomerwang

You are right that there are other, less disruptive ways of protesting. They have all been tried before. For well over 30 years.

We are facing mass extinction. People are already dying or suffering due to climate change. We now have a tiny tiny window of opportunity to make radical changes to avert the worst effects and minimise how many people suffer and die.

For over 30 years there have been petitions, marches, protests, scientific reports etc etc. government after government have ignored this, allowed big oil companies to sway decisions and chosen profits over planet and people. They have recently watered down their environmental policy despite the science clearly pointing to the way forward.

For over 30 years they have not acted in our best interests in this matter. They are not making decisions that will protect us from harm. And they could.

So, I will ask you, the OP, what else (other than nothing) can a human being, who knows that we are all in danger, has tried EVERYTHING else, for YEARS, do to try and effect change?

Protests should never be forbidden. One day any one of us could come across an issue we feel passionate about or will affect us so negatively that it becomes our only option.

With climate change I think the pandemic has shown that when it wants to the world can work towards one goal. Stopping movement of people around the globe, for example. Lockdowns, home working. If the world wanted global climate sanctions in place it could be done but this would have to be balanced against quality of life and freedom.

It is anti-British to ban protest, freedom of speech is and always has been a cornerstone of the British democratic system.
So some comfortably off, middle class retirees can stop the lorry driver doing his job and providing for his family cos they're cross about something ....... Nah that's not British.

So, I will ask you, the OP, what else (other than nothing) can a human being, who knows that we are all in danger, has tried EVERYTHING else, for YEARS, do to try and effect change?
Errrrrr. Stand for parliament?
Join the greens and try to sort them out?

Pretty much all of your fundamental rights were established through protest.

Complacent to think it can just be junked now.

@SScoobiedoo

It is anti-British to ban protest, freedom of speech is and always has been a cornerstone of the British democratic system. So some comfortably off, middle class retirees can stop the lorry driver doing his job and providing for his family cos they're cross about something ....... Nah that's not British.

You are wrong.

Protesting and being free to do so is a cornerstone of British democracy.

If you do not value the right to protest, you do not value democracy. You can;t have one without the other.

So many people are either very ignorant about how democracy works, or they are just a little bit authoritarian at heart. And being authoritarian is definitely not British IMO, the British have never wanted to be told what to do by the government!

Why so many doormats these days? Why so keen to do what some snobby bastard like Rees Mogg tells you to do?

@MeasureTwice

Disruptive protests only make me angry, tbh. They certainly don't change my attitude in a positive way toward the groups responsible. If anything, they make me feel less inclined to listen to what they have to say.

It is good that you are aware of your illogicality, the next step is to try to change it.

Saying "they make me feel less inclined to listen" is basically saying 'I have the emotional response of a 13yo'. Try to listen to the message, and try to challenge that illogical/immature response.

The trouble is, that lots of people have the emotional maturity of 13yos, and they're the people who complain to the papers and their MPs about the protests.

I saw in the news this morning that Labour are calling for nationwide injunctions to stop the protests - uniting both the main parties to stop the protest is surely not the aim?

https://labourlist.org/2022/04/labour-calls-for-nationwide-injunctions-to-block-just-stop-oil-demonstrations/?amp

I genuinely think that those people chaining themselves to the fuel depot/refineries need minimum five year prison sentences. Hopefully ten. Normal people have been affected by this, people who can’t get to work and having their wages docked when they’re already struggling to feed their kids. The govt don’t give a shit about this sort of protest.

@QuebecBagnet

I genuinely think that those people chaining themselves to the fuel depot/refineries need minimum five year prison sentences. Hopefully ten. Normal people have been affected by this, people who can’t get to work and having their wages docked when they’re already struggling to feed their kids. The govt don’t give a shit about this sort of protest.

Yes as a taxpayer I would really like to pay for those prison sentences

Making martyrs never works.

@QuebecBagnet

I genuinely think that those people chaining themselves to the fuel depot/refineries need minimum five year prison sentences. Hopefully ten. Normal people have been affected by this, people who can’t get to work and having their wages docked when they’re already struggling to feed their kids. The govt don’t give a shit about this sort of protest.

I agree with prison sentences but not that long. I'm willing to bet that once they start to suffer proper discomfort in everyday life they will realise how alienating and stupid this approach is. (thrown off university courses, criminal records, massive fines, wondering how they will pay the rent as they are unemployable and mummy and daddy have cut them off for being a nuisance) People like me ARE interested in making a difference, making plans for how I can do my bit in making things better. With idiots like this making my life even harder than it is, my interest in anyone else's future is waning massively. People aren't sitting by, I'm constantly looking at ways to save energy, eat less meat, my next car will be an electric etc. Hypocrisy from the privileged grates somewhat. Again, if it's that urgent and pressing why were there no protests when the weather was poor?

If theses people were serious about this they would be protesting against where the serious CO2 is emitted. Like airports, or travel agents or even the biggest emission that one can do which is have a child so protesting at maternity services or places where lots of larger families are. The cumulative co2 impact of a new life is massive compared to running my classic ford mustang. Protest the actual problem even if it is less politically correct. They want to protect the planet for their children when actually the biggest emission in their lifetime was the decision to have that child. I certainly don't think indiscriminately blocking people's access to petrol will do much to win over their cause.

[quote undermilkjug]The trouble is, that lots of people have the emotional maturity of 13yos, and they're the people who complain to the papers and their MPs about the protests.

I saw in the news this morning that Labour are calling for nationwide injunctions to stop the protests - uniting both the main parties to stop the protest is surely not the aim?

[[https://labourlist.org/2022/04/labour-calls-for-nationwide-injunctions-to-block-just-stop-oil-demonstrations/?amp]][/quote]
What this shows is that we do not need more legislation, we have adequate legislation which the government is not using!

People should be free to protest, the police and courts should be able to take action where it goes too far.

Going off on a tangent here but you've got a classic Mustang @Fishwishy? DH has got a new one but would love a classic!

Again, if it's that urgent and pressing why were there no protests when the weather was poor? It is urgent and pressing. Are you saying you do not believe climate change is happening, or that climate change is not serious?

@carefullycourageous

Again, if it's that urgent and pressing why were there no protests when the weather was poor? It is urgent and pressing. Are you saying you do not believe climate change is happening, or that climate change is not serious?

I asked a question, why aren't you answering it? Why have you replied with a question? I've asked it twice, someone else asked too. Humour me.