To miss genuine veggie food

[IdiotIntrusion]

In the light of all the vegan options coming out, what's happened to veggie food? Granted veggies can eat vegan but I want real cheese or mayo on my burger instead of the fake stuff.

Not even allowed to add a coffee to a 'vegan' meal at burger king, I assume because of the milk. Had to pay separately.

Just having a moan. It's annoying as hell. Anyone else?

There is a thread like this every month or so.Just Google it for christ sakes

For the vegetarian or vegans out there , be aware when buying from fast food outlets , there isn't a special place the burger is cooked , it's all cooked on the same hotplate / grill .

@IdiotIntrusion

Usually carveries are quite good for subbing out the meat for an extra Yorkie and stuffing ball (which is an absolute bonus might I add). Not yet had one tell me no - could it just have been that specific place was awkward?

Completely understand why people are vegan as you want to stamp out as much animal abuse as you can but I don't understand the egg and milk situation...

Eggs are a bi-product of chickens. They'll lay them irrelevant and unless they're fertilised then it will never become a chicken. I understand not buying them from commercial shops due to caged hens and poor conditions but surely farm shops, or even home reared chickens, would provide ethical eggs?

Same goes with milk?

No animals harmed... Just animals doing what they do?

except the egg industry kills millions of chicks a year born the wrong sex.

cows are artificially inseminated to keep them in a constant state of pregnancy and nursing to produce milk all year round and the babies taken away and fattened up with formula until ready for slaughter as beef or killed for veal at 5 days old.

then you have pigs, if you do happen to eat a male pig it will be a pre pubescent or will have had its balls chopped off without anesthetic when it was a piglet to prevent bore taint, which is the effect of testosterone on the meat that gives it an unpleasant taste. its illegal to chop their bollocks off in the uk we only eat the preteens but we import plenty of pork and pork products from places that still do it.

then you have farmed shrimps, where they cut the eyes off the females to make them grow bigger and so on and so on.

@EatsQuorn

For the vegetarian or vegans out there , be aware when buying from fast food outlets , there isn't a special place the burger is cooked , it's all cooked on the same hotplate / grill .

This isn't true. If things are verified by the vegan/vegetarian society then it is cooked separately.

I personally do not expect a local fast food joint to have a separate fryer but billion pound chains should. The same oil is an issue for some vegans but the majority of my vegan friends aren't worried about it.

@Horcruxe Plant milk is not worse for the environment compared to the negative impact of animal agriculture. Of course there is damage from farming for plant milk, but animal agriculture is unequivocally the most damaging, by far, in addition to the ethical aspects of animal exploitation.

@IdiotIntrusion Baby chicks are literally ground up and crushed...

YABU to continue eating dairy and eggs.

@Fairislefandango

You're correct, but why do you have to be so derogatory towards vegan food - 'fake'

But some vegan (and vegetarian) foods are fake versions of something else. Vegan bacon is not bacon! The OP isn't being derogatory towards vegan food in general. The fake stuff may not be literally made of plastic, but it's very highly processed and often full of dubious-sounsing ingredients you wouldn't find in a domestic kitchen.

@Fairislefandango So are many ingredients in non vegan foods, but this sort of attack is always (strangely ) directed at vegans. Even though a vegan diet is not only the most ethically well founded choice in terms of (obviously) animal welfare and the environment, but also the best for human longevity and health outcomes.

Funny how some on Mumsnet are determined to smear our food, all the same.

@Ticksallboxes You can get just as much protein following a vegan diet as you can eating animal products, and vegans have lower rates of common cancers (e.g. bowel cancer). Most people eat too much protein, and high protein diets are a time bomb for the kidneys.

There is a thread like this every month orso.JustGoogle it for christ sakes.

Same is true about many topics on MN. In real life, do you never have a conversation about a topic you've discussed before? Would just listening to a recording of an old conversation among other people be the same as taking part in a new one yourself? Maybe don't open threads it's blatantly obvious from the title that it's a discussion you don't want to read 'yet again'.

I literally said 'farm shop eggs' or home reared chickens

So farms, who have hens running around free who are separated from the males so no chance of eggs being fertilised. These hens will produce eggs irrelevant. Home eggs; I have a family friend who treats his chickens better than his dog. What's wrong with those eggs? I don't support the egg industry as I don't buy them.

This thread isn't even about what is ethically right or wrong. I just want to eat goddamn dairy as that's my personal choice and I don't see why that should be taken away from me to please other people when surely it would be better to offer both options?

I need to eat dairy as I have a vitD deficiency. I ended up with a fractured spine in two places last time I cut dairy (weight loss reasons) as my bones became so brittle.

@FairislefandangoSo are many ingredients in non vegan foods, but this sort of attack is always (strangely) directed at vegans.

Oh I'm well aware of that and am trying to cut down on highly processed food in my own (non-vegetarian, non-vegan diet). But when the health benefits of vegetarianism and veganism are so frequently stated #plantbased etc, the fake, processed products seem rather at odds with that message (not to mention the fact that the ones I've tried mostly taste horrible and the fake ones taste nothing like the thing they're supposed to be fakes of).

@ButtockUp

I really feel for vegetarians who have battled , for decades, to eat meat/fish free food. Just as the culinary world opened their eyes to vegetarians they were hijacked by vegans. And so menus seem to only cater for omnivores and vegans.

Vegetarians shafted all the way , their hopes truly dashed.

I often don't eat meat at a restaurant but am finding I eat meat/fish more , at a restaurant because there's no vegetarian option.
I can't stomach ( literally) many of the vegan options.
And , strangely enough, neither can my son's girlfriend, who is a vegan.

@ButtockUp Vegetarians are doing their best, but they are, undeniably, inconsistent in their ethics. There is no sustainable argument for being vegetarian (other than "I don't like the taste") and still consuming eggs and dairy, because these other animal products are absolutely inextricable from the meat industry. It's intentionally inflammatory of you to suggest that vegans have "hijacked" anything. On the contrary, vegans (who do have a basically consistent and defined underlying ethical standpoint) have worked long and hard, advocated tirelessly, and in fact are the ones who can be said to have "battled" to get their message out. There are lots of valid arguments back and forth about whether "plant based capitalism" and meat substitutes = good or bad, it's certainly not something vegans tend to agree on! But your read on all this just isn't in touch with the realities of the topic.

Anyone who is curious to find out more could do a lot worse than watching 'Dominion':

www.dominionmovement.com/watch

[quote Fairislefandango]****@FairislefandangoSo are many ingredients in non vegan foods, but this sort of attack is always (strangely) directed at vegans.

Oh I'm well aware of that and am trying to cut down on highly processed food in my own (non-vegetarian, non-vegan diet). But when the health benefits of vegetarianism and veganism are so frequently stated #plantbased etc, the fake, processed products seem rather at odds with that message (not to mention the fact that the ones I've tried mostly taste horrible and the fake ones taste nothing like the thing they're supposed to be fakes of).[/quote]
@Fairislefandango I actually totally agree that these products are gross af, and I would never eat them myself! I'm repulsed by meat and I have no desire to eat meat substitutes. Apart from chocolate, I'm largely a whole foods vegan. But I'm also not strictly anti PBC because I do think this stuff makes it a lot easier for people (especially Gen Z) to transition, and that it's really helped to open a "vegan conversation". But I'm not personally on the side of these foods

There is a sustainable argument for a vegetarian diet

It does far less harm to the planet than a meat diet and eggs and small amounts of cheese are totally compatible with a low carbon sustainable lifestyle

And it often is associated with less heavily processed food - restaurants offering Quorn burgers and cheese alternatives - which many people would rather avoid for health

Actually this take over of the vegan diet by the big food manufacturers is quite uncomfortable for me

@mudgetastic Nope. Eggs and dairy are inextricably linked to the meat industry, so it's not a sustainable argument. (As I said, "I just don't like the taste" [of meat] actually is, because it doesn't claim any ethical stance.)

...also would those be, um, the big food manufacturers who make things like, say, dairy products? Because I don't see how it's worse for a company that makes ice cream or yogurt in vast quantities (i.e. unethical and damaging products) to diversify into vegan products.

Nope they may be linked but eggs and diary are perfectly acceptable as part of a sustainable life style

Actually so is a small amount of meat

People who spread misinformation about what a sustainable lifestyle looks like , and make it unnecessary hard will simply turn people away from making the right choices

@mudgetastic You're misunderstanding what I said. I wasn't referring to a 'sustainable lifestyle' (e.g. someone might argue that shooting an occasional animal for food on their own land is sustainable). I was referring to a sustainable argument, as in one that is ethically consistent and can be coherently defended.

@IdiotIntrusion you say you don’t support the egg industry because you don’t by eggs…. On a thread you’ve made about wanting eggs and dairy at a restaurant. The eggs used in vegetarian meals at a restaurant - do you think they’re from home reared chickens? Lol.

[quote Innocenta]@mudgetastic Nope. Eggs and dairy are inextricably linked to the meat industry, so it's not a sustainable argument. (As I said, "I just don't like the taste" [of meat] actually is, because it doesn't claim any ethical stance.) [/quote]
They're only minimally linked, because for the most part different animals are used.

There are huge differences between the breeds used for meat Vs dairy, or meat Vs eggs. They have been optimised for different things.

When, for instance, hens go for slaughter at the end of their most productive egg laying days, understandably they will find a use for the carcass - which could be anything from soup to dog food. But they would be slaughtered regardless of whether or not the carcass can be used. They don't end up as a chicken breast on the shelves of Tesco.

Likewise the male calves from dairy breeds won't grow anywhere near as fast or efficiently as beef breed calves so they're often shot shortly after birth - the carcass may go somewhere like the local hunt kennels for the hounds, but otherwise it would go to waste (they used to be raised for veal, and occasionally still are, but that became deeply unfashionable)

Oh look, more sanctimonious vegans have arrived to tell us all how to live. Marvellous!

I agree, to many places are using the vegan option to kill two birds with one stone.

I need to eat dairy as I have a vitD deficiency. I ended up with a fractured spine in two places last time I cut dairy (weight loss reasons) as my bones became so brittle.

Have you had a DeXA scan for bone density? I'd be concerned you have an underlying condition (such as osteoporosis) and cutting dairy was more of a coincidence than anything else. There are drugs that can help - they're known as bisphosphonates.

Most people in the UK (of all dietary persuasions) are vitamin D deficient to a greater or lesser extent but vitamin D tablets can be bought quite cheaply (there are vegan and non vegan versions of vitamin D tablets too - can't remember what's non vegan about some though)

@Roseglen84 Nobody on here has any ability to control what you do. And we are aware of this. It's just the truth; if it's uncomfortable, that isn't my fault.