How do I deal with being a woman here??

[NewJobPerhaps]

I’d love your wise words on my work situation.

To start I enjoy my work, I’m paid well (very well for the sector and probably a lot more than I’d get elsewhere) and I don’t have any financial support from elsewhere, it’s just me and my DD. Small workplace, one director, no HR.

There’s two problems:

1. I’m harassed by a regular supplier. He unnecessarily visits the office, stares at my tits, calls me ‘terms of endearment’ such as sweetie, darling, etc. and generally makes my skin crawl. The boss is aware and I’m banned from mentioning it as it makes him uncomfortable!!

1. We have an outrageous woman hating client.

At a meeting last week he actually used the words, ‘typical woman what do you expect’! My colleagues were shocked but didn’t call him out (because he’s high value client). He speaks to me like I’m there to make the tea and mostly like I’m an idiot. I’m neither.

It’s a male dominated industry but any advice? I can’t leave as I’ll never find anything as well paid and at nearly 50 I think I’ve missed the boat. Not really an AIBU but what can I do?

Just looking to rant really and ask for any coping strategies?

Let me guess? Your boss is male. Poor him it must be so hard trying to to cope with your being sexually harassed. It sounds as if you’re pandering to a lot of men.

With the supplier, can you confront him? I never found bantering back worked so a polite challenge. I find turning 50 has been hugely liberating at not giving a fuck.

The almost 80 year old is more delicate.

A tinkly laugh with and smile sweetly thinking oh dear, you’re such an idiot. Anything, which will make you feel better but not confrontational. Low pitched mmm also works well. It indicates disapproval but isn’t actually blatantly rude. Or play insult bingo in your mind until you get to a full house.

"Do stop staring at my tits, petal, you might go blind"? Or put a jacket on when he's due.

Back in the day, I had to simply ignore appalling behaviour and act totally the innocent. (Masturbatory type stuff in interviews... What an unfortunate tic that poor man has...) Whipsmart humour helps, if you can muster it in advance.

No point saying anything with the 80yr old. Ignore.

The supplier I'd call out for his behaviour, and report to his employers if his attitude doesn't change. They'd probably be horrified a member of their staff was acting in this way. If it still doesn't change.....change supplier.

As for the 80 year old....someone above has suggested answering in a jokey way by challenging his behaviour whilst smiling. I definitely agree with that. A few of the older generation will never see the error of their ways, but won't be around forever. Either answer back, rise above or avoid meetings with him where possible.

For the sake of a job you mostly enjoy and a good salary, I would stick with it and make it work for you

Or put a jacket on when he's due.

Yeah OP it's obvious you should dress differently so men don't sexualise you 🙄

[quote MardyOldGoth]Banned from mentioning being a victim of sexual harassment because it makes your boss uncomfortable? Aw, the poor baba! 🙄

This treatment is against the law. It's your boss's responsibility to ensure you are protected from harassment under the Equality Act. Tell him to step up or you'll be taking it further. Check if there is a grievance policy. If you need support, contact ACAS. www.acas.org.uk/contact[/quote]
Yes this, WTF is your boss thinking saying that?

I'd say keep the job but try to set some boundaries to protect yourself. Definitely fire the supplier and make sure they know why, why on earth feel guilty!

Do you have to have face to face contact with the client? I was wondering if you could invent a male colleague who'd taken over dealing with them and pretend to be them on emails? He'll probably wax lyrical about how much better you are than the woman he was dealing with previously....

Buy a huge scarf, when supplier arrives cover up. Then yes stop using him.

To find well paying jobs as a single parent is a wonderful thing
So we’ll done

With the tit staring one I’d practice some firm statements and say with a smile

• it’s ‘my name’ not darling
• it’s 2022 John - smile - you know that language isn’t appropriate anymore

With the old one - duck knows . Icy gaze ?

Also when it’s review time discuss with boss that he needs to have your back a bit .

I’d not throw away a well paid for these two
I would assert myself
However

god your boss is a wet blanket and useless.

The supplier is easier to handle. Change supplier, you can do it gradually and if you're challenged say something about single supplier models not being good.

Depending on your seniority, confidence etc you might want to give the supplier a heads up why you are easing him out if he says something and if what he supplies is excellent, give him a chance to be better.

Clients are more difficult. Realistically he's 80 so how long can it go on? Can you pass him off to boss to handle because he should be handling the bigger clients and client is obvs unhappy with you?

But you also need to have a word with your boss, manipulate him if you have to and make him think it's his idea to hand over the client. Realistically? you may have to suck that up. Just let your eyes glaze over and think about something else?

So, you shouldn’t have to accept this sort of thing in the workplace, but we live in the real world, and it sounds like the money is worth it. Well done on getting such a good job in that respect.

You need to develop a thick skin and some coping strategies. I might make it a game for myself and try multiple strategies and see which worked. My aim would be to unsettle/shut them up or at least make it like water off a duck’s back. A very good hard Paddington stare? Silence? Pretending to cry? Sure you can come up with others.

But ultimately, you can fire the supplier and the client will be dead soon. Perhaps tell them that!

If you want to stay in the job YOU HAVE GOT TO STAND UP FOR YOURSELF. If you can utterly directly- “would you mind staring at my breasts please,” or “don’t call me that name- I don’t like it” to the supplier, “I’m sorry what did you say” “those views are completely unacceptable in this day and age you know” or “has no one told you that sexism went out in the 1970s” to the client. If you can’t do this, then walk away from the situation, explain to your useless boss why and say he’ll have to get someone else to do the work. If he tries to do anything about it in terms of disciplining you tell him you’ll take him to an employment tribunal.

First, I wouldn;t assume you can;t find better work or equal pay elsewhere. How deeply have you investigated this? It might be worth calling into an employment agency, telling them your current income and asking what they have available at the next grade up with your experience.

Meanwhile I would look into changing supplier.
As to the misogynist, think about it very practically, in terms of what reaction to him suits you best. He will always exist. Misogynists always will. In your position I would grey rock him, so be boringly civil to him but keep your interaction to a minimum. Never cave into his assumption you will make the tea etc. Just be deaf to it.

Find a single strong sentence to use with your boss in response to him. E.g. I shouldn't have to put up with misogyny or Do you feel comfortable with how he treats me? and just use it whenever you are being gently pressurised to play along with him.

I think I would compartmentalise this.

It's not you it's them.

Be cool and professional dealing with them. Don't smile and don't retaliate either. Keep telling yourself they are the ones who are wrong and you are not going to let yourself be upset by it.

And change the supplier as soon as it's feasible.

Calling out an 80 year old for sexist behaviour isn't going to make an iota of difference to how he behaves in future.

God - this bit gave me the rage just reading it:
The boss is aware and I’m banned from mentioning it as it makes him uncomfortable!!

I can see why you're reluctant to leave though. Nothing much you can do about the 80 yo I suppose. My response to the supplier (until you can get rid of him) would be very scathing and amused remarks to threaten his masculinity, along the lines of suggesting how inadequate he must be if he feels the need to behave that way. Make him feel like a pathetic loser (because he is).

Play the long game here, and to be honest the long game may be only a matter of months. Definitely dump the supplier, you say you only need him until the summer. Dump him then and tell him why. And say to yourself, one down one to go. The Client is 80. Tolerating him means you have a great salary and secure lifestyle for you and your daughter. You will be enjoying that long after he has ceased to be relevant.
Your boss is a separate problem. I’d let him know how disappointed you are in his inability to support you. Do this at any official opportunity eg your annual review. And document it.

I think you should be very very sharp to the supplier. After all he needs you and your business. Could you say something like "could you please speak to me in a professional way and stop looking at my chest all the time? If things carry on like this then we'll have to look at another supplier." Say it in a very sharp and unfriendly manner. That should focus his attention. Then just continue talking about business and don't get into a discussion with them.

As far as the eighty-year-old client is concerned then I'd be more inclined to just ignore him or say "times have changed now you know" and just carry on with whatever you are doing.

I've just bought a 'Fuck Off' badge from Etsy. One of those pinned to the chest area might be a neat message for the tit-gazer.

For those saying be cool and calm, don’t let it bother you, I see the point but in my experience it doesn’t work with this type of man and it obviously does bother her. Men (dickheads) like this only respect people who have the balls to directly call them out- in a way it doesn’t matter what you say and you don’t have to scream at them, it’s just having the confidence to let them know that you’ve clocked their behaviour and that you are not prepared to put up with it.

"Hello, darlin'"
"Why are you using terms of endearment? It makes my skin crawl?"
"Oh, I say that to everyone... you're nothing special."
"Maybe so. Nonetheless it isn't appropriate, and I want you to stop."

This advice is terrible
This is illegal behaviour
Speak with Acas or CAB.
Your boss has a duty to protect you from harassment and the onus is on them - not you
Jesus this is fucking depressing

You need legal advice here, not an assertiveness course! The advice here reads like it’s the 1950s.

Are you in a union

Def don't leave because of a supplier. Stop using him as you said. That should be enough. Consider developing an ethics questionnaire for all suppliers to complete. Include questions on equality. Make it mandatory to respond to.
Send it to all suppliers and see if it helps him adjust his behaviours. Here's a link to an example www.ecocognito.com/twitawoo/post/ethical-supplier-questionnaire-for-independent-retailers/

Alternatively call him out in front if others. Just say those comments are not acceptable in 21st century. You need equality training and I recommend if you want to continue to work with us, you take time to learn abd adjust your behaviour accordingly.

I've called out loads of people. It's uncomfortable, but you'll see if he's more focused on keeping the work versus keeping up this ridiculous behaviour. Make sure your employer knows you will do this - they are also condoning the behaviour by not acting. Ask them to support you in doing this.

I'd also look for other suppliers so if he walks you have a replacement.

Good luck,

You’ll get a lot of posts advising you to stand up for yourself and absolutely this would be the right thing to do and the right thing to tell you to do on the internet.

However, you have to take that advice on the understanding it will not change the behaviour of either of these men. There is no scenario in which either of these men will go ‘oh my god I’m so sorry for being a twat I had NO IDEA it would offend you’. They’re both fully aware what they’re doing is problematic, that’s the whole point of doing it. They are pigs and they’re probably pigs in all aspects of their lives. If the other women in their lives who have much more influence than you can’t educate them, you’ve got no hope.

Also advice to sue is easy to hand out online, in practice though you can’t sue someone for looking at your tits and calling you darling, as much as you should be able to. It is exceptionally difficult to make a sexual harassment case stick.

In reality, your choices are to leave or to stay, but distance yourself from the behaviour in question. You can have a sit down talk with your line manager and very seriously discuss that this is making you incredibly uncomfortable and hope he allows you not to work with either man.

Essentially, if the job and the money are more valuable to you than the sexual harassment is uncomfortable, you stay. If you’re more uncomfortable with the sexual harassment than you need your job, you leave.

It’s awful, in no way am I saying this is at all right or fair, it’s just reality.

If the guy is making you uncomfortable find a guy at work you can talk to

Tell him and ask him to come over every time this guy appears "oh I'm really interested in this"

Worked for me anyway

I had a colleague who constantly stared at my tits. In a meeting, in front of everyone, when he was speaking to my tits, I responded very sharply: “I’m up here, Peter”, pointing to my face. Everyone laughed, it embarrassed him and he never did it again - nor did any of the other men, who, realising I’d not hesitate to call them out on it, amended their behaviour around me.