Rishi and his wife

[eerk]

AIBU to ask

1. What is wrong with him having a green card if this is not breaking any rules?

2. What is wrong with his wife only paying UK tax on UK income if this is within the rules?

I assume what they are doing is no different to what anyone else is likely to do in their situation.

Isn't it the rules the need to change rather than their actions?

It's not actually obligatory to sink to the lowest common denominator of behaviour you know. Some people, astonishingly, just do the right thing.

Can you explain the issues around the green card as I know nothing about them and why this may be seen as an immoral issue?

Surely the issue is that she's saying she doesn't live here to avoid taxation and yet she lives at number 11 Downing Street with the chancellor of the exchequer.

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Boris changing the conversation

The Rushi's have done nothing wrong here it's misogyny and racism and jealousy.
-No wife has to take her husbands nationality.

-She pays taxes in her home country on her businesses there why should the British get a cut of that?

-Do we insist the French, Italian Swiss, etc take British Nationality? My Spanish friend has lived here for 30 years and hasn't.

I assume what they are doing is no different to what anyone else is likely to do in their situation.

After a certain number of years, non Dom tax advantages are only available to people who can pay the £30-£60 K annual fee.

Isn't it the rules the need to change rather than their actions?

Can’t remember - which government minister is head of the department that deals with tax policy? 🤔

She claims that she doesn't live here but she clearly does.

Also she misleading claimed that it was due to having Indian citizenship which was bollocks.

Idk about the green card thing.

Because the person in charge of the nations budget has been exposed as having a vested interest in keeping loopholes open so the wealthy can avoid paying their fair share of tax. All this whilst living in prime London real estate which we are paying for.

@Whingasaurus she doesn't need to change her nationality, it's nothing to do with that.

And does she pay tax in India, or in a tax haven country?

Well the declaration requires to obtain a Green Card directly contradicts what was said about her UK-based non-dom status a few days ago.

And it’s not hard to see any potential conflict in one person setting national policy for one country while declaring they consider themselves resident in another and it is their permanent home? Not even a little bit?

Looks like they've seen sense anyway

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/08/rishi-sunak-akshata-murty-us-green-cards?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

To hold a green card you have to declare that the US is your permanent residence and that you'll pay all your taxes there.

The reason it matters is:

A. RS holds one of the most significant positions of power in the UK while declaring he does not actually live here.

B. RS is making tax laws that will put whole families into poverty but he and his wife are actively trying to avoid paying the same % share. Whilst families are at foodbanks the Sunaks are getting richer.

This then begs the question does RS have the best interests of the population at heart or is he distracted by focusing on what will be financially beneficial for him. He certainly isn't there for the MPs salary.

There's also the question of where his wife pays taxes, they tried to claim she was a non-dom because she's an Indian citizen. However non-dom is a choice that's outside of citizenship (as her U-turn shows) so where exactly is she paying tax and how will that influence the thinking of the Chancellor of the Exchequer?

It. All. Matters.

@Whingasaurus

The Rushi's have done nothing wrong here it's misogyny and racism and jealousy. -No wife has to take her husbands nationality. -She pays taxes in her home country on her businesses there why should the British get a cut of that? -Do we insist the French, Italian Swiss, etc take British Nationality? My Spanish friend has lived here for 30 years and hasn't.

You don't have to change nationality. Yo u can retain your nationality and not have non dom status. You will find that is the reality for hundreds of thousands of people who aren't extremely wealthy. It'ss fallacious argument made by people who don't understand the tax system.

@HollowTalk

Surely the issue is that she's saying she doesn't live here to avoid taxation and yet she lives at number 11 Downing Street with the chancellor of the exchequer.

No - she is claiming non-Dom status which means that she is resident in the U.K. for tax purposes, but doesn’t pay UK tax on non U.K. income.

Non Dom status is granted if among other things you can show that you don’t regard the U.K. as your permanent home.

And the problem is Rishi's policies have already favoured the wealthy living off investments rather than earned income and it's apparent he has every personal incentive to carry on and not close loop holes. So you can carry on expecting the same.

For me there is more of an issue with him having the green card than his wife's tax status (although I disagree with the fact she's not domiciled in the U.K. if she has kids going to school here and she lives here during term time).

Years ago I was looking to join the foreign office and become a diplomat. I have dual nationality and would have had to renounce my non-British one. This was hardly illogical. And I didn't want to do I chose a different path.

It is a conflict of interest to be an MP with rights to live elsewhere coming from a second nationality or residence permit.

He - and no other serving politician - should have that. Ironically however, given the US's rules on paying tax, he probably pays less tax now he's given it up.

Domicile is not the same as citizenship or nationality. I agree to an extent that perhaps we should change the rules as technically she is allowed to chose to declare her domicile to be Indian… however when married to the person who literally makes the rules on domicile she perhaps did not make a very sensible choice.

As for the green card, the issue is that when you get I’ve you declare an intention to become a us citizen. The us does indeed have a different set of rules around tax and domicile and again it has implications around where he would be taxed.

As to why the British should “get a cut”, almost all countries require all residents to pay tax on their worldwide income. Double tax treaties between countries are in place to prevent people being subject to two regimes.

The bottom line is that to all intents and purposes they are both domiciled here but she has declared she actually still wishes to be domiciled in India by declaring she intends to go back and live there and only lives here temporarily.

She pays taxes in her home country on her businesses there why should the British get a cut of that?

No she doesn't! Her dividends are routed through Mauritius. There is no tax payable on dividends in Mauritius. She doesn't pay tax on this income anywhere.

I'm quite amused by all the outrage in the Daily Mail, though: a "newspaper" that's owned by the non-dom Viscount Rothermere.

She will have to live in India for a certain number of nights, it used to be 90. There are probably more non doms than you expect in the uk.it isn’t necessarily a fault in our uk tax system, but in the country’s where these people live like Monaco for example, where people live to pay less tax, but primarily work in the uk.

As non dom status was created to protect the wealth of Colonialists, isn’t it time this archaic tax dodge was dropped? People who enjoy the benefits of residence here should be subject to the same regulation as the rest of us.

My Spanish friend has lived here for 30 years and hasn't.

But your Spanish friend will have had to pay tax on worldwide income, if they have been permanently resident in the U.K. for 30 years.

Non Dom status is only available to those who have the means to pay the fees (£30k or £60k/year) and manipulate their tax residency.

Rishi is the Chancellor. He makes the rules on taxes. He needs to raise more tax. There are two ways he can do it:-

Option 1:- Close loopholes for non-dom residents so that the very rich can no longer avoid paying tax
Option 2:- Increase tax / NI for the average person forcing some people into poverty

He chose option 2. That is what I object to.

I have no problem with his wife. She is following the law. I have a problem with the law and the man that makes the law.

Similarly to ‘partygate’, can’t we expect a little bit more than ‘technically within the rules’? Integrity and fairness maybe?

Rishi did not declare the potential conflict of interest correctly, and so broke the ministerial code.
His role is to manage these rules, and if he and the government looked at closing these loopholes and taxes the Uber wealthy (companies and individuals) correctly the rest of the county would not be in the frankly terrifying position we are now in. Given how much his family and mates benefit from these loopholes remaining questions need to be asked.

We don’t know if she is paying tax in India, or some offshore tax haven, given the reluctance to clear this up the latter seems pretty likely. Legal sure, but pretty shitty behaviour when you live (albeit not all the time) in a UK government grace and favour property with the Chancellor of the Exchequer who is presiding over perhaps the biggest decrease in standard of living we’ve ever seen.

Non Dom status is only available to those who have the means to pay the fees (£30k or £60k/year) and manipulate their tax residency.

Sorry - that isn’t right. Should have said long term non Dom status is only available to those who can pay fees and manipulate residency.

Non Dom status can just be a normal part of temporarily working abroad.

I think people are getting confused here:

Domicile, residency and nationality are three different things.

U.K. residents pay tax on their U.K. income
If you are domiciled in (say) England and Wales you pay tax on your worldwide income in the U.K.
you can be a national of any country and live/ be domiciled here (with the right visa).

Plus the green card issue.

It all just looks like RS and his wife have one foot out the door and have no interest in the long term future of the U.K. and yet he is the one deciding our taxes and public spending?

As another poster said - to join certain civil service departments you have to be British/ not lived elsewhere for a certain number of months which can be argued to be ok but the chancellor? He would have declared whilst in post that he intended to permanently reside in the US. Not on.