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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Rishi and his wife

276 replies

eerk · 09/04/2022 06:15

AIBU to ask

  1. What is wrong with him having a green card if this is not breaking any rules?

  2. What is wrong with his wife only paying UK tax on UK income if this is within the rules?

I assume what they are doing is no different to what anyone else is likely to do in their situation.

Isn't it the rules the need to change rather than their actions?

OP posts:
Minatrina · 09/04/2022 08:23

@Summerhillsquare

It's not actually obligatory to sink to the lowest common denominator of behaviour you know. Some people, astonishingly, just do the right thing.
First comment hits the nail on the head.

Why are we accepting politicians behaving immorally because, well, technically it's allowed. What ever happened to honour and integrity? Do we not value that anymore?

Tories of years gone by at least pretended to have honour and integrity. The current lot don't even bother to try and pretend. And yet we keep voting for them expecting things to get better.

Anyone who hasn't realised that the Conservatives care for absolutely no one but themselves is being wilfully ignorant. If you're middle class they don't care about you. Upper middle, lower middle, even actually upper class, they don't care. They only care about themselves as individuals and, as a side-effect, their rich mates may also benefit.

And if you're working class? Just forget it altogether.

SickAndTiredAgain · 09/04/2022 08:24

@Buildingthefuture

They are working within the rules. For everyone getting so cross about this, can you honestly say that if, for example, your parents wanted to give you £100k early, to avoid paying inheritance tax, that you would insist that they didn’t, that you waited until they died and the whole lot was taxed? I do not think that you would and that exact situation is mentioned here on mn all the time without people being up in arms about it! And for what it worth, I will never inherit anything so I’m not thinking of my own situation, simply what others post about on here.
There is a thread running at moment where the OP is asking how to avoid her children paying inheritance tax on their 1.2m home. A fair number of the replies actually are saying the DC will be inheriting loads, they should just pay the bloody tax.

Obviously situations change but if my parents were to die tomorrow, there’d be a decent amount of tax to pay, and I still think inheritance tax should be significantly increased despite that negatively affecting me (potentially - depending on my parents’ future circumstances of course).

MissyB1 · 09/04/2022 08:25

@chimichangaz

Why does this situation seem so difficult for some people to understand?

He is chancellor of the exchequer, he is in an extremely powerful position. He makes rules on taxes that we are all supposed to follow and yet he and his wife do not, because of the way they have set their finances/tax position up.

As pp have said, 'technically' they are within the rules. But how does it look?

I am fecking sick of this government taking the piss. It's one thing after another. And the galling thing is, this whole situation breaking has probably been engineered by the PM to distract from partygate.

What a mess this country is in. Makes me sad and angry in equal measure.

And they will still be voted in because 'I don't like Kier Starmer'. 'The money has to come from somewhere'. 'They are doing their best'. 'What's wrong with RS having a green card and his wife having non-dom status?' (That autocorrected to non-dim which is equally accurate...)

Fuck the lot of them.

Yep sums it all up for me.
EasterIssland · 09/04/2022 08:26

In 2020 I got a letter from hmrc saying they had found that I had savings abroad (I’m Spanish) and as I was living in this country I had to pay taxes on it. It wasn’t much but I had to pay for it and declare all my money abroad(in savings). Sure if she’s living in n11… she should do the same as me

Minatrina · 09/04/2022 08:26

@Mumoftwoinprimary **

He has chosen for British people to struggle, for British people to go hungry, for British pensioners to die because they can’t afford to put their heating on rather than close a loophole that means that his family would have slightly less money in a way that they would never notice.

Bang on.

Carbiesdreamhouse · 09/04/2022 08:27

Why are his trousers so short when he has so much money???

SpinningTheSeedsOfLove · 09/04/2022 08:28

@Libertybear80

The issue with the green card is that you are stating that you intend to become a permanent citizen of the USA in future. He clearly didn't have that intention!
So he’s just another bloody liar at the heart of Government.
sashagabadon · 09/04/2022 08:34

@janj2301

I love the fact that MN maintain that women are free to do their own thing they don't have to follow husband and here you are saying because of her husband's position she should change her financial arrangements. Hundreds of celebs don't pay UK tax but they aren't hounded in the media. She has not broken any laws. Most of the bitching (not just on MN) seems to be jealousy. If I had millions I'd do what I could to avoid NOT EVADE any taxes
Come on now. She’s married to the U.K. chancellor. Arguably the third highest position in the country after the Queen and PM.
Skyellaskerry · 09/04/2022 08:36

They have done nothing wrong. The fuss is simply based in the politics of envy - and that is odious

No, it's more about judging something that is not morally right or fair. I also just can't imagine why when you have so much wealth you need to find ways to make it even greater, to the detriment of contributing to the society you live in. All these 'efficient tax planning' type schemes and loopholes need be highlighted for what they are, and closed. But of course those who benefit most are in power and will not do so.

DemonCat · 09/04/2022 08:36

Governance is about rules, morals and ethics. Rishi makes the rules. Morals and ethics are severely lacking.

The optics on this are dreadful.

Fleur405 · 09/04/2022 08:36

@tttigress

I do feel his wife has been targeted. Obviously she is paying tax, but not in the UK, but that is because she is an Indian passport holder.

Whether she should renounce her Indian passport is a separate question (you can't have dual citizenship if you are an Indian passport holder)

Her citizenship is not relevant to this issue. Domicile is (sort of) a legal fiction. She can literally change her domicile instantly merely by deciding to - which is what she has now done - it has no r effect on citizenship or residency (though residency can have an effect on domicile).
spudjulia · 09/04/2022 08:38

Are you asking what he's done wrong? Or why everyone is furious with Sunak when practically all the government (and many very wealthy people) are doing?

If the former, PPs have answered very well that it's morally bankrupt to have set taxation which gives such a high burden on the poorest and let's the incredibly wealthy get off without paying their fair share. Morally bankrupt but still technically legal because Sunak failed to close that loophole (as did any previous chancellor - doesn't do your career much good to piss off the super rich and powerful).

If it's the latter - I don't think this is about racism or misogyny. I don't think it's about his wife at all. It's because the people pulling the strings have decided it's time Sunak went, for whatever reason. It is exactly like Gavin Williamson and many others before him - he'll be spinning with the amount of dirt thrown at him until he gives up and resigns. Don't know why it's his time. Maybe because he was getting more popular than BoJo? But it's definitely not really about his tax avoidance. All of the government are doing that and most of the people who own the newspapers claiming to be shocked.

Palavah · 09/04/2022 08:41

@sashagabadon

It’s a labour attack imo. Tories generally approve of this type of tax shenanigans. It’s generally the way the super rich operate.
It's more likely to be a leak intended to take Rishi out of the running for leadership, supporting either Boris or one of the other contenders
eerk · 09/04/2022 08:43

@DemonCat

Governance is about rules, morals and ethics. Rishi makes the rules. Morals and ethics are severely lacking.

The optics on this are dreadful.

Do you think that's why they've done such a quick u turn?

He's clearly extremely wealthy and probably not as well paid in government than he could be elsewhere. So why does he want in? To have the fame that come with it? The power to keep the rules benefiting him his family and friends?

OP posts:
mudgetastic · 09/04/2022 08:44

It's not that it's illegal
And it's his wife not him

It just to me suggests a lack of commitment to this country , a focus on self over state that isn't what I like to see in the leaders of this country

No different to many other Tory's but I agree it's a Tory leak in preparation for taking Boris out

alltheteeshirts · 09/04/2022 08:49

I can't be bothered explaining how inaccurate the reporting has been on this, because it's largely been garbage and I've been ranting a lot about it since the news broke.

But the short story is, Rish's wife doesn't appear to have done anything wrong, and it's largely irrelevant. Someone has fed this to the press to stir up outrage, knowing full well that that the average layperson doesn't understand tax.

What is relevant, and this is what people should really get angry about, is not that Rishi has a rich wife who minimises her tax exposure, but that he has zero ability to empathise with poor people. You can be rich and do his job - either independently rich or through marriage - but you have to empathise with people who have different circumstances to your own.

He is incapable of that, and that is why the man is a failure. Not because of how much tax his wife does or doesn't pay. Because he makes up rules based on his very limited understanding of the world.

I think I'd quite like to make it mandatory for anyone taking up the Chancellor position to live in a council flat in a shitty area for two months, with only access to money equivalent to the minimum benefits available at that point in time, and for those payments to randomly stop during the experience. Supplies included as part of the experience will be equivalent to those you can obtain from the food bank on a bad day, so a bag of Smart Price pasta and a tinned Fray Bentos pie. I'd also like the heating to be cut off half way through.

I'm not saying everyone claiming benefits has a miserable existence, but I'd like whoever is Chancellor to have to think about what life is like for people who do get the short end of the straw. If they lack the imagination for it, let's simulate it for them briefly. I feel like they'd make better decisions for it.

poppetandmog · 09/04/2022 08:49

Tax laws are complicated. She's not saying she doesn't live here. Residence and domicile are two completely different things. You are deemed to be domiciled in the UK after 15 years of living here anyway - we haven't seen her tax return so we don't know what she's paying. I work in tax and I don't like the narrative that she's somehow avoiding tax - she's not, this is just the basis of taxation for someone not born in the UK.

noblegiraffe · 09/04/2022 08:52

What happened to the concept of "household income"? They're married and living together aren't they?

Rishi's household income is substantially increased by him not closing tax loopholes. Not closing tax loopholes reduces everyone else's household income. And as we know, Rishi's policies have just substantially reduced everyone else's household income.

mathanxiety · 09/04/2022 08:53

As for the green card, the issue is that when you get I’ve you declare an intention to become a us citizen.

No, this is not so.
...........
What's happened is that Sunak was lukewarm about Boris when Partygate made the news, clearly with domicile in Number Ten in mind. Then luckily for Boris, Ukraine came up, and he's now riding high. Meanwhile, Sunak has dragged the Tory brand down with the austerity and the faking of being an Ordinary Bloke and The Missus. So his time is up. Just as he has done with all his other rivals, and opponents of Brexit, Boris took out the folder on Rishi, blew the dust off it, and is now in the process of fatally wounding him.

It's also a warning to Liz Truss, who is popular, not to get any ideas.

HowIsItMarchAlready · 09/04/2022 08:54

@eerk

AIBU to ask
  1. What is wrong with him having a green card if this is not breaking any rules?

  2. What is wrong with his wife only paying UK tax on UK income if this is within the rules?

I assume what they are doing is no different to what anyone else is likely to do in their situation.

Isn't it the rules the need to change rather than their actions?

Totally agree
gogohm · 09/04/2022 08:55

She can be whatever nationality she wants but if she lives in the U.K. (which she does) she should be paying tax at the rate any other resident does.

Happygirl79 · 09/04/2022 08:57

@TenRedThings

Because the person in charge of the nations budget has been exposed as having a vested interest in keeping loopholes open so the wealthy can avoid paying their fair share of tax. All this whilst living in prime London real estate which we are paying for.
This
spudjulia · 09/04/2022 09:01

[quote lettherainfalldown]There are 2 strong Twitter threads that will answer your questions and let you see actually how bad this is.

Read this one first about Akshata Murthy: twitter.com/richardjmurphy/status/1511964400978214912?s=21&t=RRGMiX6pfFhYZ3b1XV9z8A

And then this one about Rishi Sunak: twitter.com/richardjmurphy/status/1512330297949446147?s=21&t=RRGMiX6pfFhYZ3b1XV9z8A[/quote]
These are good

Buildingthefuture · 09/04/2022 09:01

@alltheteeshirts, I agree completely

AlexaShutUp · 09/04/2022 09:03

@Whingasaurus

The Rushi's have done nothing wrong here it's misogyny and racism and jealousy. -No wife has to take her husbands nationality. -She pays taxes in her home country on her businesses there why should the British get a cut of that? -Do we insist the French, Italian Swiss, etc take British Nationality? My Spanish friend has lived here for 30 years and hasn't.
It isn't about nationality.