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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Deeply concerned about Child Safety in Bristol

1000 replies

MatthewJTaylor · 07/04/2022 21:28

From May 5th to May 8th 2022, the Tobacco Factory Theatres in Bristol is having performances of "The Family Sex Show".
This show is aimed at children 5 years old and up.
The performers involved get naked.
The discussion with the children is on sex, sexuality and sexual pleasure.

I cannot imagine brining a 5 year old child to a theatre where people will to to her/him about sex and show their naked bodies to her/him.

Am I the crazy one?

Sources:
The Family Sex Show website
Listing at The Tobacco Factory Theatres

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 08/04/2022 16:29

Oh! I see. They musta, shoulda, woulda, maybe

They say nothing to that effect. And the 'collaboration' with the Sex Ed company, who are compliant with the guidance for the KS3 and above, is smoke and mirrors as they are that company, extending their reach.

And nobody knows if/how they are compliant with NSPCC guidance.

Are you usually so trusting? That isn't good safeguarding!

And how does lowering the boundaries of 5 year olds 'empower' them at any age?

FFS!

backtobusy · 08/04/2022 16:30

It isn't usual for five year olds to see naked people on a stage is it?
Particularly not one's talking about sex.
It isn't a doctors.

Throughabushbackwards · 08/04/2022 16:30

@Perfect28 again for your reference.

This is most obviously a simulation of a sex act.

Wintersgirl · 08/04/2022 16:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn as it quotes a deleted post.

MatthewJTaylor · 08/04/2022 16:31

@Flumsnet

01225 823409 - call this number to speak to Bath theatre who are also showing the sex show.

I asked if they are in favour of making a profit from exposing genitalia to 5-year olds

"I have no comment to make" and hung up.

Clearly know they're indefensible

These are the contact details for the theatre in Bath showing this play at the end of this month. Call and let them know that this is intolerable content for children
OP posts:
Perfect28 · 08/04/2022 16:31

Can you not perceive of the two being seperated. I.e in one act the focus is bodies and body parts and in another act the message is that sex isn't just about making babies?

Shocking stuff, I know.

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 08/04/2022 16:31

@StageRage thanks for that. I shall be using some of it in my email. Bath isn't too far from me. I could easily see it travel a little and end up here!

theDudesmummy · 08/04/2022 16:32

No one is "shaming bodies or sex". We object to the (increasingly widespread) normalisation of sexual grooming of very young children. It is a totally different thing.

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 08/04/2022 16:32

@Perfect28

Can you not perceive of the two being seperated. I.e in one act the focus is bodies and body parts and in another act the message is that sex isn't just about making babies?

Shocking stuff, I know.

for FIVE YEAR OLDS?
BringBackCoffeeCreams · 08/04/2022 16:33

@backtobusy

It isn't usual for five year olds to see naked people on a stage is it? Particularly not one's talking about sex. It isn't a doctors.
Have you not noticed all the naked adults and non naked adults simulating sex on CBBC? Oh wait ...
Tiddlesthecat · 08/04/2022 16:33

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

theDudesmummy · 08/04/2022 16:33

You want to tell five-year-olds that "sex isn't just about making babies"? I think you have made your role in this whole argument pretty clear then.

takingmytimeonmyride · 08/04/2022 16:33

@Perfect28

backtobusy it's not a 'random public setting' though is it.
So anyone not in a random public setting can get naked in front of your children and talk about sexual pleasure? Teachers, youth leaders, doctors, police, family members, friends? OK. No safeguarding worries at all there.
HangingRock25 · 08/04/2022 16:34

@Perfect28

Naked adults are not performing sexual pleasure. Definition of a straw man. To others, yes I have researched the show. Yes, I have read the thread and yes, I still disagree with you. I know that such a show would have consulted several safeguarding authorities and it's still going to go ahead so I guess you will just all have to get used to living in a world where we don't shame bodies or sex and we educate young people so when they are sexually active in the future they are empowered.
@Perfect28 such a show would have consulted several safeguarding authorities

Just as those captured, brainwashed organisations that have campaigned for the removal of women's safe spaces, and women's sports, etc etc 'consulted' safeguarding authorities? Yeah right, don't be so naive. This group clearly didn't consult anyone. There is a child Psychologist on this thread, and a separate poster who worked for the NCPCC who both said this is wrong and breaches safeguarding. So you are wrong.

StandUpStraight · 08/04/2022 16:34

So the nudity is fine if it’s separate from the actual simulation of sex, in a show that is avowedly about sexual pleasure? And this is for 5 year olds, right? I just want to be clear here Perfect28, on what you are saying. God forbid we construct any more straw men.

Qazwsxefv · 08/04/2022 16:34

I normally agree with most posters on here about too much too soon and I think the age range for this is too large to cover in one show and the glossary is more than a bit concerning.

However

  1. Adults that want to get kit off infront of kids must be paedophiles - no adults that want to get kit off infront of kids for sexual pleasure are paedophiles.

One of the major issues with porn is that young people never see normal naked bodies only Botox filled hairless perversions. Young people need to see more normal naked bodies so they know that they are normal. Other cultures have much more open relationships with nudity (even other reserved cultures like japan have naked hot springs) and so children get to see many many normal naked bodies.

There is nothing erotic or perverted about the human form. When teaching children about anatomy real photos and videos are of actual humans are so much better than a diagram- the actors and models aren’t all peadophiles. Using cartoons or diagrams or not showing children what normal genital anatomy looks has lead to the crisis in designer vaginas etc.

  1. Posters saying five year olds shouldn’t know about clitorises. HIf a five year old is female why on Earth wouldn’t you tell her the name for her clitoris? Do you not tell her the name for her toes or eyes? I’m assuming most people tell their sons they have a penis? Testicles? Why would a child knowing the name of one of their own body parts be a safeguarding risk?

I’m a HCP and the amount of adult women who do not know what is normal anatomy or the names for their own genitals is astonishing. Backed up by things on social media and here about women thinking they need to remove there tampon to pee (because they think the urethra and the vagina are the same)! People don’t come to see healthcare professionals about genital issues because they are too ashamed to discuss them. I was bought up that you didn’t discuss genitals at all, had someone abused me I don’t think I would have been able to tell my parents due to deep deep shame about discussing genitalia.

  1. Posters saying that children shouldn’t be told about sexual pleasure. I hate to break it to most of you but the vast majority of five year olds have found out that touching their own penis or clitoris feels nice. I DO NOT think it needs to be in a theatre show or even bought up proactively. However when you find your kid with their hand down their pants you say “yes, it can feel nice to touch yourself under your pants but that is something you only do in private” and then follow up with a discussion about not showing anyone else what’s in your pants a’la NSPCC “pantasorus”

(Have had a 3year old boy bought to see me by a mother who wanted to know what was “wrong with him” as he “keeps on playing with it”. After some detailed discussion to ensure that no one else was touching his penis or asking him to etc I was reassured no abuse, talk about normal self exploration. Mother utterly horrified as she could not accept that it was normal for it to be enjoyable to touch one’s own genitals prior to puberty. I was also bought up like this - infact taught that females could not masturbate

  1. Posters saying that sex Ed and diagrams of genitals shouldn’t be shown to children before y6/7. Girls start puberty at 8 boys at 9. Bloody (hah) lot of good it will do telling them about menstruation 3 years after they have started their periods.
  1. From the website “Use pleasure as a vehicle for consent - knowing why we might say yes so we know when to say no."

Reads to me as “we explain that sexual acts can feel nice and so you might want to say yes but you actually need to say no”

this would have been a helpful message for me as a teen. Brought up that sex was PIV only and only done in marriage for the purposes of procreation I was certain I wasn’t going to do any of that horrid sex stuff and couldn’t see why anyone would want to unless they wanted a child . Got a boyfriend and discovered that kissing felt nice - and the other stuff felt nice too (and I had no idea that there was other sex than PIV) and then I got carried away and had regrets later. Someone telling me that sexual contact was pleasurable and so I might want to do it and that there other sexual actions as well as PIV it’s easy to get carried away and so should have hard limits E.g no touching under clothes would have been very very helpful. I couldn’t conceive of why I might want to have sex so I was extremely unprepared to be able to turn it down.

In conclusion I think the show sounds like a bad idea for far to big an age range. But I reject the idea that talking about these things with children is grooming. The more children can know what is normal the easier they can express fears or concerns about something abnormal

Wintersgirl · 08/04/2022 16:34

@Perfect28

I am well versed in safeguarding. I'm a mum and a teacher. This is not grooming, in fact it's an absolute corruption of that word. Bodies are not shameful. I'm curious as to where you all draw the line in terms of ages, would this show be OK for a 10 year old? A 14 year old? 16plus? 18?
I'm fucking glad you're not my children's teacher...
HangingRock25 · 08/04/2022 16:35

@Perfect28

Can you not perceive of the two being seperated. I.e in one act the focus is bodies and body parts and in another act the message is that sex isn't just about making babies?

Shocking stuff, I know.

Can you not conceive of the idea that both are not appropriate for 5 year old children?
Qazwsxefv · 08/04/2022 16:38

Clarity - I was told as a child that females could not masturbate so I assumed that what I was doing was therefore not mastubation for a long time and vacillated between assuming there was something wrong with me (was I a boy, did I actually have a penis) because I was masturbating and thinking what I was doing was not mastubation and so was not a sexual act (and so had someone else touched me may not have thought it was abuse as it wasn’t a sexual act)

Perfect28 · 08/04/2022 16:41

Brilliant post above. Absolutely. I agree that the age is a bit questionable but then what they are really saying is parental digression. The only poster who responded to my question of what age would be OK said 'teens', which is in itself vague and varied.

The fact is, some people don't even agree that teens in secondary school should be told that sex can be/is for pleasure, nor why anyone would need to know the name of the clitoris.

Perfect28 · 08/04/2022 16:42

hangingrock how is learning about body parts not appropriate for a 5 year old? Seriously?

theDudesmummy · 08/04/2022 16:42

@Qazwsxefv I do agree with some of your points. I am fine with normalisation of nudity and in fact actively seek out places where people are comfortable with this.

I also agree with educating people at an appropriate life stage about their bodies, sex, and everything else, including "pleasure". I could have done with a lot more such education myself (grew up in 60s/70s, practically no sex ed at all and mum said absolutely nothing about anything, not even periods, even when advised to do so by a doctor, in my presence).

But as you point out, a public theatre show including tiny children in the audience is not the place or the time. This would appear to me to be so blatantly obvious that it is clear that there is a lot more going on here than meets the casual eye.

NippyWoowoo · 08/04/2022 16:45

@Qazwsxefv

I normally agree with most posters on here about too much too soon and I think the age range for this is too large to cover in one show and the glossary is more than a bit concerning.

However

  1. Adults that want to get kit off infront of kids must be paedophiles - no adults that want to get kit off infront of kids for sexual pleasure are paedophiles.

One of the major issues with porn is that young people never see normal naked bodies only Botox filled hairless perversions. Young people need to see more normal naked bodies so they know that they are normal. Other cultures have much more open relationships with nudity (even other reserved cultures like japan have naked hot springs) and so children get to see many many normal naked bodies.

There is nothing erotic or perverted about the human form. When teaching children about anatomy real photos and videos are of actual humans are so much better than a diagram- the actors and models aren’t all peadophiles. Using cartoons or diagrams or not showing children what normal genital anatomy looks has lead to the crisis in designer vaginas etc.

  1. Posters saying five year olds shouldn’t know about clitorises. HIf a five year old is female why on Earth wouldn’t you tell her the name for her clitoris? Do you not tell her the name for her toes or eyes? I’m assuming most people tell their sons they have a penis? Testicles? Why would a child knowing the name of one of their own body parts be a safeguarding risk?

I’m a HCP and the amount of adult women who do not know what is normal anatomy or the names for their own genitals is astonishing. Backed up by things on social media and here about women thinking they need to remove there tampon to pee (because they think the urethra and the vagina are the same)! People don’t come to see healthcare professionals about genital issues because they are too ashamed to discuss them. I was bought up that you didn’t discuss genitals at all, had someone abused me I don’t think I would have been able to tell my parents due to deep deep shame about discussing genitalia.

  1. Posters saying that children shouldn’t be told about sexual pleasure. I hate to break it to most of you but the vast majority of five year olds have found out that touching their own penis or clitoris feels nice. I DO NOT think it needs to be in a theatre show or even bought up proactively. However when you find your kid with their hand down their pants you say “yes, it can feel nice to touch yourself under your pants but that is something you only do in private” and then follow up with a discussion about not showing anyone else what’s in your pants a’la NSPCC “pantasorus”

(Have had a 3year old boy bought to see me by a mother who wanted to know what was “wrong with him” as he “keeps on playing with it”. After some detailed discussion to ensure that no one else was touching his penis or asking him to etc I was reassured no abuse, talk about normal self exploration. Mother utterly horrified as she could not accept that it was normal for it to be enjoyable to touch one’s own genitals prior to puberty. I was also bought up like this - infact taught that females could not masturbate

  1. Posters saying that sex Ed and diagrams of genitals shouldn’t be shown to children before y6/7. Girls start puberty at 8 boys at 9. Bloody (hah) lot of good it will do telling them about menstruation 3 years after they have started their periods.
  1. From the website “Use pleasure as a vehicle for consent - knowing why we might say yes so we know when to say no."

Reads to me as “we explain that sexual acts can feel nice and so you might want to say yes but you actually need to say no”

this would have been a helpful message for me as a teen. Brought up that sex was PIV only and only done in marriage for the purposes of procreation I was certain I wasn’t going to do any of that horrid sex stuff and couldn’t see why anyone would want to unless they wanted a child . Got a boyfriend and discovered that kissing felt nice - and the other stuff felt nice too (and I had no idea that there was other sex than PIV) and then I got carried away and had regrets later. Someone telling me that sexual contact was pleasurable and so I might want to do it and that there other sexual actions as well as PIV it’s easy to get carried away and so should have hard limits E.g no touching under clothes would have been very very helpful. I couldn’t conceive of why I might want to have sex so I was extremely unprepared to be able to turn it down.

In conclusion I think the show sounds like a bad idea for far to big an age range. But I reject the idea that talking about these things with children is grooming. The more children can know what is normal the easier they can express fears or concerns about something abnormal

Excellent post, put it in a way that I could not have. I
TheWeeDonkey · 08/04/2022 16:48

@AliceRose1971

Who is funding this production?
Now that is a really good question.
SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 08/04/2022 16:49

@Qazwsxefv the problem wiuth your post, most of which I agree with, is that it gets translated, see the Perfect response below it.

@Perfect28 did you miss me? I did say that there are some national guidelines for theatres and cinemas, 12 seems to be the age restrictions come in, with PG before that. And KS3 seems to be the age in schools - that's 8 year olds.

Nobody here has said that teens shouldn't be told about the Joy of Sex?!?!

They are talking about five year olds.

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