AIBU or is my MIL??

[ElfinsMum]

We live in Australia. Planning our first trip back to the UK in three years for this (UK) summer. SIL also lives abroad and has booked to bring her kids across to the UK at the same time as our visit. My PIL will have their grandchildren (aged 11 down to 2) altogether for the second time ever and after a long spell when Covid made it impossible for them to see any of us. They are v excited obviously.

This is how my bossy, controlling, emotionally tone deaf MIL wants it to go:

• All the kids, who do not remember each other and speak a couple of times a year on Skype, are going to get on perfectly 24/7 for seven days solid
• All eleven of us are going to sleep in their quite small house for a full week, including all 6 children sleeping on the floor in one room. The kids are going to love this too and be perfectly well rested and well behaved.
• As their living room is really small and even MIL acknowledges that there won't be space for everyone, we are going to go on a big outing every day. She gave us some examples, "then we could go to, FOR EXAMPLE, [theme park], then the next day, FOR EXAMPLE, [local national trust]". (She has form for going completely ott on planned activities when we visit... she hears about her friends going to places with their GCs all year and then tries to go to all of them with us when we visit. I nearly asked if she had booked the tickets.)
• If any of the kids don't want to do any of the above or don't love every second of it, they will be told they are wrong and made to do it anyway. The refrains of DH's childhood were "Don't be silly" and "You'll like it when you get there".

Clearly DH and I think this is all going to end in tears. AIBU to keep the joint visit (with us and SIL) to a max of 4 nights and stay (all 5 of us) at the local premier Inn?

(We would stay with them in their own home on our own for another spell during the trip. We are in the UK for a few weeks in all)

I wouldn't do this in a million years. Book the Inn posthaste.

A sleepover of all the cousins for one or two nights, maybe. But I think the reality of that would not be what she envisions.

How about a group activity that would leave her with something when you're all gone? "Let's all build granny a rose arbor!" or something like that?

Be firm aboyt your boundaries in order to keep your kids happy - and you know best how to do this - but also do think sympathetically of MIL

I can't imagine how I would feel in her position - and actually I think it is really sweet for cousins to all hang out together a lot. This is what we would have done as children - been put all in a room with cousins we saw once a year.

It is also possible to over worry about stuff like kids getting on with cousins - it will be a laugh even if its tiring. We share rooms with lots of cousins when we go overseas - yes the children are tired/ shy/ get ratty and overwhelmed

But try not to go into this totally defensively. Im sure your MIL knows very well that kids get tired on holiday - she was a parent herself of small children once.

Just keep saying - they will be jet lagged so we need our own space for naps etc

Not sure I would want my dc around a grown woman who cries when she doesn't get her own way...

I think it will end up in tears if you follow only her plans. Children need there space as well even if its only an hour, just to decompress from such alot everyday. Also just a note, what if you or your partner or kids see something happening on a day out and decided yous would love to try that at some point on your trip? Would MIL allow that change to her schedule? Sometimes the spare of the moment unplanned days happen to be the best!

I think the problem is not kids getting on with cousins who they don’t see very often, but unrealistic expectations of the adults who don’t see them very often.

It’s one thing throwing a load of kids together in a familiar environment with familiar adults and another doing the same thing in an unfamiliar environment with adults who don’t spend time with them the rest of the year.

To make things more difficult, the fact that the gps don’t know all their gcs foibles is likely to be a bit painful for all involved. In those circumstances I think it’s wise to make plans so that everyone can retreat to their own space. That doesn’t mean there can’t be any sleepovers at all, but better to leave a hotel room empty than to feel you need to move to one half way through the visit.

I think either bigger shared accommodation with separate bedrooms, or nearby hotel would be best. The kids may all get on great and if they do you can leave the older ones to sleep over with their cousins for one or more nights but a whole week of them all in one room may be a disaster. The shared activities may be great but may also need some flexibility in case you need a day doing something on your own in the middle.
Different parenting styles are only a problem if they apply the same rules to your children. You may have to intervene with "we don't have that rule in our family" a few times. We have this with my brother who is constantly lecturing his rude children who basically ignore him. I don't want him lecturing mine as they actually listen and find it all a bit much. But it's not a big deal at all and the cousins love each other

OP. Get the hotel room or AirB&B.

I was your children and when I tell you I hated every do his minute of 'holidays home' that is not an exaggeration. The forced familiarity with my cousins was horrible. I don't see or hear from any of them outside of funerals now.

I loved being with my grandparents 1:1. Preferred when they came to us as I was able to sleep in my own bed.

I had cousins I loved to see, and I had cousins I'd rather kill than say hullo to. The feelings were entirely mutual. With 35 first cousins, there's plenty to choose from. Just because you're of an age, and share some DNA, it's a tad unreasonable to assume you're just gagging to spend time together - especially if you barely know each other!

@ElfinsMum

I absolutely can see it from her point of view and, obviously, we feel horribly guilty that they have been left alone (especially poor FIL, who is lovely).

However, if we just go along with all her plans, how would you get three kids ranging from 11-2 to play along?? Particularly as they got progressively more and more tired and more and more sick of being bossed around as the week wore on?

Don't see it from her POV. See it from your kids' POV and stick up for them or else you'll be the granny nobody visits when it's your turn.

Good luck. I understand and I have no answers. My sister and I have spent our entire lives as parents trying to navigate visits home so that we are all OK. We both live abroad and there are probably good reasons for that. While we struggle to manage our kids food, mood and sleep around the craziness that are other people's routines, rules and expectations, the kids all have a great time and have great memories. My eldest nephew is 19 and my youngest is 9. We have 8 kids between three of us.

I had this with my ex mil, and the large holiday house worked well. I explained it as we were all so looking forward to seeing her and would like to treat her and for her to be able to spend the time enjoying her grandchildren not worrying about hoovering and tidying. Have a look for somewhere suitable and close to where she lives and ask her to plan the excursions and activities

This more or less describes our cousin holidays. We would get together once a year or once every two years and stay at my Grandma's house. The parents got the bedrooms and the kids slept on air mattresses in the lounge room. We LOVED it. It was an adventure and meant we got to spend every minute catching up and playing. We became super close even though we saw each other infrequently.

I'd say give it a chance, but maybe take 2-3 days at the end to stay in a hotel in case you're finding it too much.

Don't see it from her POV. See it from your kids' POV and stick up for them or else you'll be the granny nobody visits when it's your turn.

FFS. These GPs haven't seen their own kids or their grandkids for three years. Covid has been shit for people whose kids and GC are on the other side of the world. Surely all the older kids can have it explained to them that their GPs (and specifically FIL who is apparently wonderful) are bursting with excitement to see them, and that it would be kind to go wit the flow for a few days. After all it will probably be years before the GCs have to do it again.

[quote ElfinsMum]@yikesanotherbooboo Genuinely, I am wondering how you would express to your kids that they must make the most of it? One or other of my kids generally lose the plot with MIL after a few days because she just expects to tell them exactly what to do and say all day every day. SIL was fairly similar when we last met up: lots of use of boundaries, consequences, reward charts and the naughty step. We are just the opposite end of the spectrum, barefoot hippies the lot of us [/quote]
My DGC would hate it.

Age range from 15 -3 and the 5 year old is pretty bossy.

And my kids would tell me quite firmly what to do with such a lunatic idea.

You're supposed to be looking forward to this, not dreading it

And I can't stand grown women who cry when they don't get their own way

@insanemumof3 Funny you should mention that...So last time we stayed with them (before Covid), we arrived and my MIL asked my then two DC if there was anything they would like to do while they were at her house. DD said "I'd like to go swimming please". Swimming is a big thing in DH's family and our kids do a lot of it so I thought all good....

... We ended up going swimming at some random leisure centre at 9am on Easter Day because it was on the way to the pre planned activity and that was the only time she was prepared to squeeze it in.

They wanted to do one thing FFS. And she asked them what they wanted to do 🤦‍♀️

@DeliaOwens Yeah, that's my fear. Oldest DD is not super chuffed at having her life disrupted to go and visit the rellies. If they make it torture, she may well really dig her heels in next time.

(My own DF, who is good with kids, has actually already thanked her for giving up so much time and making such a big effort to come and see him. He could read the dynamic even on screen.)

@ChateauMargaux Thanks for the sympathy. It is definitely one of the challenges of expat life. A British friend here paid for whole family to fly "home" for Christmas (the most expensive time of year) only to have her youngest turn round and say afterwards "But it was crap, mum, we just sat around for three weeks on other people's sofas eating Quality Street" 🤣

Maybe it's only my utterly spoiled children, but they never did discomfort well.

They would last ONE night in this scenario and be totally allergic.

They are polite children, but they would hate it.

They would not like a room with so many other children sleeping on the floor.
They wouldn't sleep well.
They would be like a bag of cats after 2 nights.

We live a distance from some family and have only EVER done one night with them.

We booked hotels nearby and everyone had their bed, sleep, and were happy.

You are spending huge money to fly there and it is indeed likely the holiday will be ruined.

Being able to leave at the end of the day and have some sleep and rest could be the thing that makes this time bearable.

Your MIL crying if she is challenged is such a recipe for stress and upset.

I really think, in your place, I would book the Premier Inn NOW.

Say nothing and just tell her a month beforehand that the children haven't been sleeping well and this is for the best.
No discussion, a fait accompli.

If she is hysterical, let her work it out of her system.

She sounds like such a manipulative bully.

In this situation, your children getting decent rest comes ahead of her tantrums.

I predict a disaster holiday that your children will never want to revisit if you stay with them for the week.

Her tantrums don't trump your childrens welfare.

We stayed with cousins on visits abroad as kids- up to 10 aged 2-14 on floor in 1 room at times. Our family is spread across the globe. We only saw each other every 4-5 yrs, doesn’t take long at all for kids to just get on with it! We always had a ball together & all remember the camp overs & nonsense fondly....yes there were some sleepless nights but worth it for the memories we made.
You need to recognise that your MIL is trying to fit in all these amazing moments because she doesn’t have the chance to on a regular basis, she will be seeing her friends do stuff with their grandkids & feel she is missing out. Why not talk to her about it, discuss that you are looking forward to all spending time with her & the family, more about time together than big trips every day but factor in a couple of those along with family moments like bbqs as others suggested.

I always think the old saying is right 'guests, like fish, begin to smell after three days'
Honestly i think 3 days max of full togetherness is enough!!!

@ElfinsMum

I absolutely can see it from her point of view and, obviously, we feel horribly guilty that they have been left alone (especially poor FIL, who is lovely).

However, if we just go along with all her plans, how would you get three kids ranging from 11-2 to play along?? Particularly as they got progressively more and more tired and more and more sick of being bossed around as the week wore on?

@ElfinsMum Is there any way you can have a private word with FIL about it? He must have some idea what children are like, what his wife is like, and to be able to have a word to her for you?

I think trying to have an 11year old and a two year old sleeping on the floor in the same room would be a nightmare even without all the other ages in between. I would maybe have one overnight at the house and embrace the chaos so the kids can have one night with forts and midnight feasts and then the rest of the week at the Premier Inn. My kids are horrendous after a one night sleepover (with no sleep) they would be psychotic after a week.

@HangingRock25 i would say he has survived close to fifty years of marriage to MIL by never having a word with her about anything ever. (And by putting up with being the butt of most of her humour.)

@HangingRock25 DH has decided to speak to his sister though.

Would your PIL consider renting a much bigger holiday home for the week where there are loads of activities/ beach etc nearby. By the time that you pay for all the days out/ premier inn etc whilst staying at their house it might work out not that much more and could be much more of a pleasant stay where you could have days in staying the holiday home with enough room for everyone.