To wonder why people are so keen to defend their profession

[Siepie]

It's something I see quite a lot on Mumsnet. I'm including my own job here: I'm a lecturer. I work hard and I think I do a good job. Several times on Mumsnet I've seen threads about problems DC are having at university, and lecturers posting along the lines of "that could never happen" / "a lecturer would never do that!" Meanwhile I'm thinking I've definitely worked with people I could imagine doing that!

It seems to be the same with a lot of public facing roles on here, e.g. teachers, doctors, receptionists, call handlers. I'd understand if a poster was complaining about all of your profession, but if someone's posting about a specific incident, why do posters automatically disbelieve them? Do you really think everyone with the same job as you is good at that job? If so you must have been very lucky with your colleagues!

Nah, plenty of people in my profession are shit at their jobs.

My job has some really good people but definitely some shit people too. And the good people, often those who are the strongest technically lack people skills so it's a real mixed bag.

@Siepie

It's something I see quite a lot on Mumsnet. I'm including my own job here: I'm a lecturer. I work hard and I think I do a good job. Several times on Mumsnet I've seen threads about problems DC are having at university, and lecturers posting along the lines of "that could never happen" / "a lecturer would never do that!" Meanwhile I'm thinking I've definitely worked with people I could imagine doing that!

It seems to be the same with a lot of public facing roles on here, e.g. teachers, doctors, receptionists, call handlers. I'd understand if a poster was complaining about all of your profession, but if someone's posting about a specific incident, why do posters automatically disbelieve them? Do you really think everyone with the same job as you is good at that job? If so you must have been very lucky with your colleagues!

Because so many posters title their thread with "Why do teachers ........ etc?" instead of the less goady "why does my DD's teacher do this?"

They generalise when they should be specific, so members of those professions reply in kind.

Have you seen how many teacher bashing threads there have been since the beginning of Covid?

Most grossly unfair and some just speculation.

I'm retired now but it sickens me to see it. Some people seem to have an irrational hatred for teachers.

It's a bit weird.

I think it probably comes from the same urge as NAMALT.

Tbh sometimes it's because they post something suggesting they have misunderstood what the person in my profession has said (which isn't their fault). Its also quite common in my profession, especially post Covid, for relatives to get a garbled version of what the intervention has been about from a third party. Again, not their fault, but my instinct is to try and see it from the point of view of at least getting accurate information, which probably comes across as defending the professional (though tbh it IS the professionals responsibility to communicate better).

I suppose it depends what they're defending them against

Ill informed comment and silly gossip fair enough - genuine concern based on something actually known, not so much

Is this a TAAT? and the ski-ing rambunctious evviiiilll teachers?

@AndAsIfByMagic

Have you seen how many teacher bashing threads there have been since the beginning of Covid?

Most grossly unfair and some just speculation.

I'm retired now but it sickens me to see it. Some people seem to have an irrational hatred for teachers.

It's a bit weird.

I think it's because almost 100% of the population have been in a situation where a teacher had power over them, and a reasonable proportion have experienced that power being exercised in a way that they considered to be unfair. GPs are in a similar position.

You couldn't say the same for accountants, or lawyers or plumbers (e.g. many people go their whole lives never having any significant professional interaction with an accountant), which is why teachers and GPs get a disproportionate amount of stick.

I’m in a heavily criticised profession and people often post on here about my profession being useless or lying and sometimes I do defend the pressures of the job and I do stand by it being the minority who are actively useless at their jobs

I’m a nurse and sick of seeming the NHS is shit/ not fit for purpose/ staff let my mother die etc. The one the other day about an elderly patient left on a trolley for hours comes to mind. Now I have worked with some individuals who are less than ideal, but murderers, no. Staff deliberately leaving patients for hours unattended, no. What I do see is insufficient staffing numbers who have triaged those most in need and yes that is their clinical decision not the relatives.
I always go back to a poster and suggest they correct their post to “in my experience” which is a more reflective account. NHS services vary hugely across the country and Scotland’s runs completely independently from the rest of the UK so cannot be compared with Essex or wherever.

What tends to happen is someone posts about rubbish service from their plumber or unprofessionalism in their chiropractor, and everyone else, quite naturally, chimes in with their own experiences of inadequate plumbers and negligent chiropractors, giving the impression of widespread corruption and incompetence within those professions. People in them perhaps feel the need to redress the balance.

The thing with teachers is that there's a lot of them and most people come into contact with them (either as a pupil or a parent), so it's obvious that there will appear to be more complaints than other professions, similar with doctors & nurses, etc.

There are people who complain about their accountant, solicitor, estate agent, IFA, surveyor, etc., and those who complain about the police etc. But you don't hear of the complaints as often as most people aren't dealing with those professions as often, if at all.

But, yes, the OP does have a point. I'm an accountant, and I certainly don't reply to social media posts trying to argue black is white when someone complains about their accountant, I tend to agree if they have a point and point them to what they can do about it, i.e. rectify mistakes, complain to professional body, etc etc. I certainly don't take it personally because I know some accountants make mistakes or are crap at their jobs, etc (I've worked alongside some) - luckily it's a small minority!

There does seem to be a tendency for some teachers, nurses and GPs to try to defend the indefensible rather than accept "some" of their colleagues may not be that good and point them in the direction of how to resolve problems.

The other issue is that most people have no control over choice of teacher, nurse, GP, etc - they're basically given who they get and have to like it or lump it.

With other professions, such as solicitors, accountants, IFAs, etc., and trades such as plumbers, electricians, builders, etc., you have free choice. If you get someone who you don't like, does a crap job, etc., then you simply move on and choose someone else.

@giggly

I’m a nurse and sick of seeming the NHS is shit/ not fit for purpose/ staff let my mother die etc. The one the other day about an elderly patient left on a trolley for hours comes to mind. Now I have worked with some individuals who are less than ideal, but murderers, no. Staff deliberately leaving patients for hours unattended, no. What I do see is insufficient staffing numbers who have triaged those most in need and yes that is their clinical decision not the relatives. I always go back to a poster and suggest they correct their post to “in my experience” which is a more reflective account. NHS services vary hugely across the country and Scotland’s runs completely independently from the rest of the UK so cannot be compared with Essex or wherever.

That’s just semantics though. And someone who’s had to watch their parent die through shit care probably doesn’t need to be told off for not being reflective.

@giggly

I’m a nurse and sick of seeming the NHS is shit/ not fit for purpose/ staff let my mother die etc. The one the other day about an elderly patient left on a trolley for hours comes to mind. Now I have worked with some individuals who are less than ideal, but murderers, no. Staff deliberately leaving patients for hours unattended, no. What I do see is insufficient staffing numbers who have triaged those most in need and yes that is their clinical decision not the relatives. I always go back to a poster and suggest they correct their post to “in my experience” which is a more reflective account. NHS services vary hugely across the country and Scotland’s runs completely independently from the rest of the UK so cannot be compared with Essex or wherever.

That thread was bullshit. The Op had to drop in to say they had cancer tests above people who actually had symptoms-teehee It was a load of goady nonsense. Most of them are. The my 98 year old grandma DIED, someone must be to blame posts also.

Easy to see through it when you know how services work-its all made up.

When someone posts comments like all pharmacists are failed drs or a similar sentiment of course I will respond. They are devaluing my profession and its often because they don't understand what I do. So in that circumstance I will respond. Also when someone posts something a long the lines of, 'stupid pharmacist took ages with my prescription because they needed to check something with the Gp for fucks sake the Gp is much more highly qualified so couldn't possibly make a mistake'. They can and do so again I would respond. Often the comments are about rules and regulations so I'm not deliberately holding your mums end of life drugs on hold but if the dosage is wrong and I don't get the Gp to rectify it I could send them to an earlier grave and have to deal with all the repercussions that come with that. I can't sell you two packets of solpadeine even if on the off chance one is for your nan and no you can't stock up on calpol and buy 4 bottles. People often don't see beyond their own needs and accept the rules are in place regard how much of certain drugs you can buy because harm has happened so to protect the majority the rules are in place.

There are people in the profession who are just disinterested and have lost motivation and rather than be crap with people they should leave and I always say if you've had bad service move on to another chemist.

@Octomore

Nah, plenty of people in my profession are shit at their jobs.

Yep same here. I was having a moan to a friend who's an optometrist the other day about a bad experience I had in Specsavers and she said she can't criticise others in her profession.

Yet as a lawyer I would not hold back on criticising for example rubbish conveyancing lawyers who won't use email and think you should still use fax machines (perhaps not an issue now but was the last time I bought a house).

When someone posts comments like all pharmacists are failed drs or a similar sentiment of course I will respond.

Oh yes I’d probably respond if somebody started talking about ‘all lecturers’ too. In fact I think I have responded to somebody generalising about all people with PhDs.

But I remember during lockdown someone posting about a lecturer not answering emails, and a lecturer came on to argue that the student must be wrong because she responds to her emails. I respond to my emails too, but I don’t take it as a personal slight when somebody mentions that not all of my colleagues do!

Similarly I’ve seen threads on schools and hospitals where people who work there insist the OP must be wrong because they wouldn’t personally do what the teacher/doctor/etc is alleged to have done. I just don’t understand being so sure that nobody in your profession ever does the wrong thing.

Nobody mention Architects! Lol

I defend my profession (teaching) a lot, because non-teachers often talk such bollocks about it and parents often have a narrow and blinkered view because they only really care about how things affect their own child.

However, I would never deny that there are crap teachers - there are crap people in any job), and I would never defend a teacher who was behaving badly or unprofessionally.

I think it's natural to feel a bit defensive about your profession if someone criticises it.

@Siepie

When someone posts comments like all pharmacists are failed drs or a similar sentiment of course I will respond.

Oh yes I’d probably respond if somebody started talking about ‘all lecturers’ too. In fact I think I have responded to somebody generalising about all people with PhDs.

But I remember during lockdown someone posting about a lecturer not answering emails, and a lecturer came on to argue that the student must be wrong because she responds to her emails. I respond to my emails too, but I don’t take it as a personal slight when somebody mentions that not all of my colleagues do!

Similarly I’ve seen threads on schools and hospitals where people who work there insist the OP must be wrong because they wouldn’t personally do what the teacher/doctor/etc is alleged to have done. I just don’t understand being so sure that nobody in your profession ever does the wrong thing.

It is particularly embarrassing when it is teachers and academics demonstrating so vociferously that they don't understand synecdoche.

I have yet to see anyone post "all teachers..." or "all nurses...". It's either about a specific experience, or using synecdoche whilst relating personal experiences, i.e. "teachers..." or "nurses..."

Very different, and very obviously different.

How great must one's ego be to be unable to distinguish between a personal attack and synecdoche - or most of the time, between a personal attack and someone commenting on their own very specific and entirely unconnected experience.

I don't think it is really synecdoche at all. It's a generalisation, or a sweeping statement. Macrocosm synecdoche - i.e. using a large or complete entity when you're really talking about a small part of it - is a figure of speech or shorthand,e.g. where you're using the word for an institution rather than specify the one or few representatives of the organisation you're really referring to.

Saying 'teachers' when you mean 'my child's bloody awful teacher', or 'the few teachers I know in real life' isn't synecdoche, it's an unfounded sweeping statement based on anecdote.