To think relationships a bit of a raw deal for women?

[CrushEmAll]

I know there are women who are extremely happy in their relationships, but I believe that’s probably the minority. The vast majority of divorces are filed by women. And of those that remain married, many appear to stay for financial reasons, for the kids etc. I’m not here to bash men (I have sons of my own), but many of them just do not seem to have the emotional intelligence and communication skills (amongst other things), that are required to make a relationship healthy and successful. A few women I know who are past their child bearing years and are still single, seem to have high self esteem and confidence, are financially secure and independent and will not settle. It seems for these women, men have very little to offer them therefore they continue to be single until they find someone who is able to genuinely enhance their lives. And I wonder if it’s a very very small percentage of men who truly will be able to enhance their lives?

I know there are women who are extremely happy in their relationships, but I believe that’s probably the minority.

Really? Not IME.

many of them just do not seem to have the emotional intelligence and communication skills (amongst other things), that are required to m0ake a relationship healthy and successful

That's not particular to men; the same applies to many women.

I used to think that. It is better to be single than in a bad relationship but i love my good relationship which i found later in life after emdr therapy which cleared the trauma of bad past relationships.

Love is a choice and good men make that choice. I know many. Both pairs of grandparents loved each other very much, both Dh & my parents love each other, and many many other examples. It’s not all plain sailing but it’s worth fighting for. My family is full of strong women, and I’d think it’s much easier to end up with a good man who also pulls their weight if you are clear on your standards and what you are worth and don’t accept less.

@Suprima
I didn't settle i just appreciated his qualities from the start.He is softer than most men for example...hasnt been in a fight in his life and avoids confrontation.He isn't ugly either and I did fancy his pants off.The reason I mention this is because I know couple of women who are confusing drama with passion and have left good men because they are 'boring'.
On the other hand I also know many happy couples.

YANBU, I divorced 8 years ago and I decided never to have another relationship. I'd consider a FWB but I'm not running around after a man ever again.

A few women I know who are past their child bearing years and are still single, seem to have high self esteem and confidence, are financially secure and independent and will not settle.

What do you mean by that? - "will not settle"?
I am past child bearing age, single, OK self esteem and confidence, financially secure and independent - and perfectly settled, thanks.
Why your mysogynistic assumption that one can only be settled in a relationship, presumably with a man?

I look at about half the relationships I know and think 'no way' due to the men's behaviour. I walked out on one relationship because there was no way I'd have kids with him as I would have been put upon. I don't feel sorry for the women involved as it was clear who these men were when they chose to have children with them. There's plenty of men who are prepared to take advantage of women and plenty of women who let them.

@ThinWomansBrain

A few women I know who are past their child bearing years and are still single, seem to have high self esteem and confidence, are financially secure and independent and will not settle.

What do you mean by that? - "will not settle"?
I am past child bearing age, single, OK self esteem and confidence, financially secure and independent - and perfectly settled, thanks.
Why your mysogynistic assumption that one can only be settled in a relationship, presumably with a man?

I read this to mean they will not settle, short for settle for second best, preferring to remain single?

@JanisMoplin

Honestly I think long term marriages are hard for everyone. Ideally, I would like to have separate houses like Tim Burton and Helena Bonham Carter, and meet about 3 or 4 times a week. I think this makes particular sense when menopausal.

I frequently tell my DH this! He acts offended - I think in the past he may have been genuinely offended but he knows better now!

My dad was totally perplexed by me when I admired the set up of some friends who were married and childfree lived separately (got married later in life). It seems perfect to me - 3/4 days a week staying over, 3/4 days in your own space. What’s not to like?

Women are far too dependant on men for their happiness and well being, many have never lived alone, therefore haven't got the confidence to be alone, and if they do find themselves alone waste so much time and effort trying to find someone else, anyone else so they are no longer alone.
If you can live happily alone, become emotionally strong, depend on yourself, support yourself having a man around won't be a priority,.its a freedom many women wont ever get to taste because they are conditioned to be in a relationship, instead of working on the relationship with themselves.
l dont look to a man to make me happy, thats on me. A man may enhance my life but he isn't the be all and end all. l dont expect a man to think and act like me, thats another mistake women make, they are looking for a double of themselves, as long as he is kind and decent, honest and thoughtful thats the main thing. Unconditional love is a rareity, most forms of romantic love are little more than a transaction and rarely on an equal footing, the constant competition of whose doing what causes resentment.
l lived quite happily with my late husband for 20 years , now l live happily alone, living alone allows me to be totally authentic, l am accountable to no one, l raised my sons exactly how l wanted to raise them, l did a fantastic job and still doing it, there is no feeling in the world the pride that comes with that, and the love and respect l get back is tenfold.
My advice would be take off your blindfolds and enhance your own lives, you will never look back.

I’ve been happily married for 32 years, if god forbid something happened to DH I think I’d be OK alone. I would certainly not go out of my way to meet someone new.

@JanisMoplin yes I agree about luck...or maybe it's more that it's not always possible to know how someone will respond when bad things happen.

We've had some really scary/ traumatic things happen as well as long term illness/ disability that we never guessed were in our future.

So yes, just talking about things when young and naive is definitely not any sort of guarantee that things will work out.

@SalsaLove

My grandmother was born in 1905, married in 1925 to an angry alcoholic. She gave birth to five sons. When my grandfather died she set up a business as a seamstress and never looked at a man or spoke of my grandfather. From her actions I figured she was happy to be on her own.

What an amazingly strong woman. 5 sons?! Perish the thought 😱

Divorced. Four sons. Own house. Good job. In a relationship but happy not to live together or blend families. That’s how it’ll be. I love my life and can’t see myself washing, cooking and cleaning for a bloke ever again. Why ruin things? Couldn’t be happier. I’m mistress of my own life.

Remember discussing remarriage with a client in her 60s and she laughed and said “not likely I’ve got four sons” 😁. Don’t know if she meant she had quite enough men in her life already or that the sons would not accept a new chap!

@aleedebo

I'm single through choice and absolutely love it. I couldn't imagine any man being worth giving up this life for. I refuse to wash someone else's clothes, cook their food, pick up after them, share the bed except for my DD. I love my freedom, I love my house decorated my way. I love that I can wake up in the morning and do what I want to do and not worry about anyone else's feelings (except for DD of course). I have great friendships, great family, great career, and I just don't see the need for a relationship. They've only brought me trouble and heartbreak in the past. Im 29 and being single is a conscious lifestyle decision I have made.

That's a list of things you could still have in a healthy relationship.

Not to argue with your choice, obviously, but just to point out that not all relationships involve cleaning up after an adult/worrying about how they feel.

@Datada

Yes, CrushEmAll, (Interesting name), l agree. Not to mention all the hours of housework, life admin, driving, it's like being their line manager. Add to that, the expectation to look a certain way. To attempt balance, Jo Brand said, 'There's one good man, in every village.' I have met a few gentlemen, in my life but only knew them as acquaintances, so didn't really know them. The idea of romantic love is fairly new, around Jane Austen's time. Twas a business deal prior and still pretty much runs that way now, in reality. Just a little anecdote, a male colleague used to enter my office when l was eating an apple, then try to cover his erection by bating it down with one of his legs. He looked like an upturned woodlouse. Ick times a million.

So this guy got an erection because you were eating an apple? How bizarre. He sounds disgusting - I would have called him out on it.

Relationships are hard work and just to get into one for how it will 'enhance' your life is probably a doomed attitude.

What on earth is the point of a relationship if it doesn't enhance your life? In what other sphere would you knowingly make a decision based on the fact that it would be detrimental to your life? If I want hard work for little return I have my actual working life, my relationship with my male partner actively enhances my life. If it didn't, we'd split up.

However, I chose really carefully. Married men are healthier than unmarried men but the reverse is true for women. Looking at my parents' marriage I can see how detrimental it has been for my mother and how good it has been for my father. There was no way I was having that and I quite deliberately chose a partner who adds to my life, and I to his. If by staying single you are better off than you would be with a particular person, stay single. Love isn't enough and it won't last decades of carrying a dead weight around anyway. Just ask my mother, who pretty much hates my father, and yet for reasons none of us can fathom stays with him.

I fall into the second category.

While I do believe there are decent men out there the experiences of my female friends and the many many threads on here regularly remind me exactly why I am better off without.

I simply could not imagine putting up with the behaviour described. The bar set for men is very very low.

There was the woman who’s DP pissed the bed and left it for her to clean.

The ones who won’t split finances.

The ones who cheat, lie and are disrespectful.

The ones who aren’t abusive but just thoughtless.

The ones that want a maid.

No thank you.

I also have very little time for women that complain about their husbands lack of ability to “help” them then say ah men - with a tinkly laugh.

I don’t fit the narrative of kind and forgiving people don’t like it so you have to be prepared to be challenged. I can say no easily and it makes you an outlier.

This also resonates with me. Very much. I say no easily and don’t really care if someone doesn’t like it. That’s a them problem not a me problem.

Looking at some of the women I know is it the case that shit behaviour is tolerated more by women?

I was brought up by my mum, a woman who probably gives out a bit more shit than she would ever think of taking (which again isn’t perfect I know), so the idea of me growing up and putting up with some of the specimens my friends tolerate just wouldn’t happen. But these relationships seem to be on a ‘oh well, they are men’ basis, whereas my husband is judged on my standards by me, not given allowances for fuckwittery because he’s got a penis. I think if I ever did give him allowances for that he’d feel a bit insulted, because he’s more than capable of being a normal human being.

I guess it’s about being equals and having equal expectations of what you both do.

So many people here posting as if their own experience is proof of how the rest of the world works.

Many people are in happy relationships. Many are happy single. Many are unhappy in relationships. Many are unhappy single. All of those options are perfectly common.

Wholeheartedly agree with the OP. I used to get so cross with people who banged on about the high divorce rates these days. I just used to think, yeah, it's because some women are finally realising they don't have to put up with shit, and have the financial means to escape.

Whilst I agree that we can make choices and direct our own lives, this is much harder for some than others. If you're broke and unable to go out much, less than stellarly confident and average looking, in your prime partnering-up years, your pool of potential male mates is smaller. Blokes fitting the same profile seem to do alright, and also do not have the age barrier... Still very rare for younger men to permanently partner with much older women...

@Primtemps

You don't mention love! Relationships are hard work and just to get into one for how it will 'enhance' your life is probably a doomed attitude.

You see this trotted out quite a lot on here (and possibly elsewhere I'm sure.) Hard work for who?

A good balanced relationship is not hard work.