To think relationships a bit of a raw deal for women?

[CrushEmAll]

I know there are women who are extremely happy in their relationships, but I believe that’s probably the minority. The vast majority of divorces are filed by women. And of those that remain married, many appear to stay for financial reasons, for the kids etc. I’m not here to bash men (I have sons of my own), but many of them just do not seem to have the emotional intelligence and communication skills (amongst other things), that are required to make a relationship healthy and successful. A few women I know who are past their child bearing years and are still single, seem to have high self esteem and confidence, are financially secure and independent and will not settle. It seems for these women, men have very little to offer them therefore they continue to be single until they find someone who is able to genuinely enhance their lives. And I wonder if it’s a very very small percentage of men who truly will be able to enhance their lives?

In the Western modern world, we are fortunate that we can choose if we want a partner or partners & this can be the same sex or other sex or to live a single life

I expect that it is not the case in some other countries where there are young, forced marriages

Don’t agree. I and most women I know are happy in long-term relationships.

I hate my dh right now.
I might adore him next month.

Relationships are rarely equal but find an acceptable balance or break down.

Honestly I think long term marriages are hard for everyone. Ideally, I would like to have separate houses like Tim Burton and Helena Bonham Carter, and meet about 3 or 4 times a week. I think this makes particular sense when menopausal.

This!!!

Romantic love (which, let's face it, is mostly a combination of physical attraction, blind hormonal response and a whole host of personality preferences based on all kinds inclinations resulting from your upbringing, social conditioning etc) might be exciting and fun (because it needs to be, in order to make you have a drive to procreate),but it's a very poor predictor of whether you'll be happy living with that person for the rest of your life.

I was lucky. I fell in love with a man who is a good life partner. I’m so bloody grateful for that.

Same Gotajob. Blundered into it but I literally shudder to think of my life if I had married the boyfriend I had before Dh.

Absolutely agree. I can't understand why women bother but then I suppose I felt differently in my 20s due to the social conditioning making me desperate to find a man 🙄. Wish to god I had realised then how bloody brilliant it is to be single. Anyway, now divorced in my 40s and cannot imagine ever wanting a relationship again. Cannot see any upside really. And reading the relationships board just makes me depressed at what people put up with, not only those stuck in bad relationships but also just from useless men on online dating. Why on earth does anyone bother with it (women I mean - it's pretty obvious why the men do it)? No upside at all for women as far as I can see.

Why would anyone settle ?

It reminds me of that Kate Nash song (can't remember the title) which is about an awful relationship and one of her lines is "and i think god i hope i'm not stuck with this one"

It is really sad to hear young women talk like this. But i see it in some of my DCs (in their 20s) friendship circle that the young women settle for absolute fucking arses who don't lift a finger, because they are more worried about living alone.

@badkitty

Absolutely agree. I can't understand why women bother but then I suppose I felt differently in my 20s due to the social conditioning making me desperate to find a man 🙄. Wish to god I had realised then how bloody brilliant it is to be single. Anyway, now divorced in my 40s and cannot imagine ever wanting a relationship again. Cannot see any upside really. And reading the relationships board just makes me depressed at what people put up with, not only those stuck in bad relationships but also just from useless men on online dating. Why on earth does anyone bother with it (women I mean - it's pretty obvious why the men do it)? No upside at all for women as far as I can see.

Personally I like having someone to watch TV with at the end of a long day. Or to go to exhibitions and plays. I find my friends are either too busy or too tired or too something post pandemic. Companionship basically.

The downside of course is having that companionship all the bloody time and wfh!

Definitely agree. My group of friends are all on the same page - bumbling along in ok relationships until the kids are older. None of us want to meet anyone else, we'd just like to be on our own if we split up later on.

I have one friend who actively adores her husband, they have lots of fun together. But he's hopeless round the house and with the kids, she just does it all really.

It depends who you mix with. If you mix with people who have healthy, happy relationships, then you'll think the world is full of them. Or vice versa.

Everybody has a choice about which relationship to be in.

It’s single childfree women that are said to be happier, it’s not a bed of roses being a single mum and the key word is the single childfree women are happier, I see women in relationships and most of them are so reliant on their partners that I’m not sure I agree with this, like women who can’t cope being on their own whilst their husband is at work, women who can’t cope if their husband has to go away for the weekend.

Maybe men and women are just not fundamentally compatible and chuck kids into the mix….

Of all the marriages i know of, its gay men with no kids who seem to like each other the most and have the most fun!

They are if you date or marry someone shit.

Unfortunately, lots of women are socialised to put up with shit. It's not womens' fault a lot of men are poor partners and it's not our job to fix them, but women are responsible for their own actions - if someone is in a relationship with someone who is a poor communicator or expects the wifework etc, they can leave and that many don't is on them.

I hate reading the threads like "Oh my new DH has never been able to pick a single sock up off the floor, has never told me he loved me and I had to strongarm him into marriage - I'm so miserable" - okay, so you knew he was shit from the start, why did you marry him?

I KNOW it's an issue of socialising women to believe men can do no wrong and that's just how they are, I know it's because society expects us to pair off before 30 or you're a doomed spinster, I know people want kids and that drives them to accept shittier partners for the sake of it but... ultimately you can only control yourself. If your partner is shit it'd be NICE if they would stop being, but you can't make it happen, you can only control your own actions. So the only way to guarantee not having an oversized child man in your life is to leave if they behave like an oversized child man. I wouldn't go to McDonalds, pay for a Happy Meal, be disappointed it wasn't a Michelin star meal and then keep eating there repeatedly.

Don't be complicit in your own misery.

There are good men with actual life skills and communication skills out there - stop believing the mumsnet threads where they say 'They're all the same' and assuming you may as well stick with the shit one you've got, because it's not true and by believing it you're only making your own life worse.

(Just to add again: MEN BEING SHIT IS NOT WOMENS' FAULT I KNOW THAT, I am not saying that)

Love going away with female friends but can only really relax with Dh and he is brilliant company - whenever I’m away without him I think “if it was just Dh and I here we would do x”.

I agree with housemaus it’s about self esteem. I was quite attractive and confident in my twenties so had the pick of a few men and chose Dh as he was the best and so it has proved. If you are under confident and want a man at any cost you risk getting a dud.

@AHungryCaterpillar

It’s single childfree women that are said to be happier, it’s not a bed of roses being a single mum and the key word is the single childfree women are happier, I see women in relationships and most of them are so reliant on their partners that I’m not sure I agree with this, like women who can’t cope being on their own whilst their husband is at work, women who can’t cope if their husband has to go away for the weekend.

I only ever see this on MN. In real life, all the women I know are happily travelling alone without their husbands in remote countries, going for stuff without husbands or alone, sitting in cafes alone, eating at restaurants alone... I do all of these things. And some with DH.

I think there is a cultural element of expecting/excusing men being useless, but it’s not my experience at all.

My DH is far more emotionally intelligent than me and is a really good communicator. I’d say he enhances my life in every way. He was brought up to show emotions and to consider other people’s feelings though.

I think as a society we need to expect more from boys and men. Stop accepting and normalising things and everyone, man or woman, will be happier.

Quite often women find attractive lads ,bad boys etc and marry them...then they wonder why they aren't perfect husband/father material.I am with someone who is a big softie and I couldn't be happier.I get help with housework,baby,finances .He is truly a partner in life and most importantly I respect and love him

@Selma22

Quite often women find attractive lads ,bad boys etc and marry them...then they wonder why they aren't perfect husband/father material.I am with someone who is a big softie and I couldn't be happier.I get help with housework,baby,finances .He is truly a partner in life and most importantly I respect and love him

You clearly have a lovely relationship which is great, but this really isn’t true.

The ugly ones aren’t always nicer or more appreciative of you- in fact, they end up respecting you less because they know you are settling.

A sensitive ‘good boy’ also has the potential to be an utter twat and abuser, usually through the forms of emotional manipulation.

Women deserve to have a man who they think is sexy, and that unbridled lust at the start of the relationship. Everyone I know who has settled for a ‘good man’ or a man who is punching above their weight still has someone who leaves their pants on the floor and doesn’t share the mental load opts out of all holiday/family life planning.

Settling is the worst. A beautiful life for yourself is the most important thing, and if someone who adds value can join you- that’s just great.

I only ever see this on MN. In real life, all the women I know are happily travelling alone without their husbands in remote countries, going for stuff without husbands or alone, sitting in cafes alone, eating at restaurants alone... I do all of these things. And some with DH.

Who knows if they are genuinely happy though? People only post online where they are anonymous and no one will know how they really feel and perhaps put a brave face on for the rest of the world?? People won’t want to be seen as weak and reliant on someone. I’ve seen many posts on here from women saying they simply don’t know how they will cope whilst their DH is away for a business trip, how will they “possibly manage 2 children alone” how will they manage bed time, how will they get house work and shopping done, god knows what they think single mothers do. So I do think a lot of women are heavily reliant on their partners so I’m not convinced that relationships don’t benefit women.

There are enough shit men out there that I can see why a lot of relationships would be a raw deal for women. But I can't comprehend why any woman would endure a relationship that was obviously a raw deal for her. (I'm aware that in abusive relationships there's a horrific psychological element, but I'm talking about the more commonplace drudgery so many women seem to just put up with.)

If I had any sense that any relationship would end up being a raw deal for me, I didn't pursue it. I thought about my current relationship long and hard before committing properly after about four years, bless my patient DP and it's very much not a raw deal.

I always felt sorry for those people who seemed to need to be in relationships all the time, and I also feel sorry for the women whose need to have children is so strong that they settle for any man. (I wonder if it's similar to the men who need regular sex so much, and can't get it casually, that they settle for toxic women.) On such things are raw-deal relationships built.

I do think mn has more than its fair share of women who have been badly burned by men and they are so bitter its painful. And they make it out like its always the mans fault, they don't seem to take ownership of poor choices. I've got some friends who hate their husbands, but they stay because he earns well and they have comfortable lives. So its a 2 way thing.

Mine is overall a good egg he works really hard out the house running a business but mucks in when he’s here I do more house/ kid stuff but I’m home more so just falls that way and I like doing it! But he will always clean up cook do stuff with the kids when he’s not working (and why wouldn’t he we are in 2022!!)

Generally I think men can be demanding and think they deserve to come home to a meal and wife that wants sex every night (this seems to be the ideal for most!) but the difference is is finding one that realises that’s not reality and finding joy in the madness of family life!

Same goes for women generally (I’m talking girl my circles) we all want a man that does his fair share of cooking and cleaning but equally if we want to be there at the school gate everyday have to take a the career sacrifice and support partners husbands in earning enough to be able to do this. Personally I think if you enjoy the times when your together as family or couple then it’s all worth it! And of course if as a woman you enjoy the role of being the main parent/ organiser (boss!) of the house and allowing your partner to earn the money and so long as they happy knowing they may still come back to chaos each day and a crappy dinner 🤣

But for women that have given up a lot for having a family and arnt happy with it and don’t have a supportive partner I can see how shit it would be as it definitely took some adjusting on both sides for me and my husband to get the balence right but once you have it can be happy if not for sure separate.