When men say "I prefer women without make-up"...

[ThingThatIBring]

AIBU to think that when men say "I prefer women without make-up" that they don't usually know what they're talking about (and don't usually have a clue that women ARE wearing it)?

The reality of this statement is usually:

• I don't like it when women wear really obvious MAKE-UP make-up (loads of lippy and false eyelashes etc) or when it's badly applied (making it obvious);
• I like really good-looking fresh-faced young women whose complexions, etc., look smooth without it;
• I like to think of myself as very wholesome (and maybe a bit of a feminist).

What they DON'T mean (but don't realise they don't mean) is:

• I prefer the look of the average woman of my own age without any make-up on.

I know so many men who say this, and it always mildly irritates me as it's said like it's a kind of virtue.

As a post-mating-phase human, it's not like it really affects my life. But it always makes me feel for all the women who are still in a position where they're affected by this nonsense...

EVERYONE looks better with carefully applied natural looking makeup eg smooth complexion, longer lashes and filled in brows. MN seems to think makeup = drag Queen makeup. Not true.

I love make up less women.
I myself dont wear any. And Never have.
And plenty mums in my kids class dont wear any either. I like to feel that we are pretty regardless. Its skewed that society has made women believe they need make up to look better :(

I don't even know what filled in brows means

Why don’t you believe that? Why is it so impossible for you to believe it

I believe people think they are. But even you said, you think you look better. Which means it is about how people see you. What do think will happen if they see your unmade up face?

Even if people did wear makeup for others' approval, why is that so much worse than not wearing it for others' approval, as many people on here clearly think they should?

Nobody has said they should not wear it for others’ approval. It’s about not looking for approval at all.

@Sushi7

EVERYONE looks better with carefully applied natural looking makeup eg smooth complexion, longer lashes and filled in brows. MN seems to think makeup = drag Queen makeup. Not true.

Exactly! Bizarre black and white thinking on here. No makeup v drag queen full beat… it’s bizarre!

I do think as well that a lot of men will say they prefer their women bare faced, like the ‘natural’ look more etc because they think it’s what women want to hear
Obviously it just sounds disingenuous and patronising to most of us.

We're very lucky as men in that respect. If you are wearing a suit and and your hair is tidy and you are not obese, you look smart.

Is this what men think?

Not all suits are created equal. Some are ill fitting, cheap and sloppy.

So no, it's not just a case of pull on a suit and comb your hair and you'll look 'smart'.

As someone who worked for decades is a very suit-oriented environment, I became very suspicious of a sharp, expensive suit. Also obsessively tidy hair.

Then again, I always think 'smart' is a bit of an insult.

As for women in make-up, I think it depends - as does everything we all put on - on context. Big night out, probably part of the whole thing. Jogging round the park, not much point.

This obviously sounds contradictory but I prefer a natural look but I don't really ever say "I prefer a natural look"

Me and oh have been together for 30 years and at times she's worn heavy makeup and other times (and probably for the last decade or so) she hasn't worn any. I think she looks amazing regardless. We're the same age and definitely not young

Some people can look amazing with very striking makeup and I think if that's the face that you present to people then that's your face, you aren't "hiding" anything or pretending that you're something you're not

Nobody has said they should not wear it for others’ approval.

It's kind of the implication when people are wibbling on about it being about "trickery", "priorities", "fakery" and all that, as opposed to simply not caring for it themselves. Don't wear makeup, be morally superior like me, gain my approval.

EVERYONE looks better with carefully applied natural looking makeup

Define “better”. Also take issue with “natural looking” Because according to most on here, when guys say they like women with no make-up, they are talking about women with “natural” make up, which must mean that people with no make-up look different to that. “Natural” make-up gives someone a flawless skin tone, no blemishes, and a lip colour rarely seen in the wild. What’s natural about that?

Don't wear makeup, be morally superior like me, gain my approval.

Careful you don’t hurt yourself with that leap to judgement. If women want to do it for whatever reason, it’s up to them. Feeling inferior because of the reasons, or trying to deny there is a fakery in it, is for them to deal with.

I think you have summed it up perfectly op, and I have long thought the same.
It is mainly said by men who lack emotional intelligence, so it could be seen as a way to weed out pointless ones.
Ditto men who say they like “ natural beauty” , they just mean really beautiful.

you aren't "hiding" anything or pretending that you're something you're not

Nobody is pretending to have purple eyelids. They assume you realise it's there. And if you think that someone's face, painted or not, is who or what they are, there's no point trying to persuade you to look closer. That's pretty much the definition of shallow.

@Poptart4

YADNBU

I've known afew men to point at a picture of a celebrity and say "see, she looks so much better without makeup".... thats when I point out they are wearing makeup, just not heavy make up.

I think social media and filters has skewed men's (and women's?) idea of what natural really looks like.

I hear this said a lot in the 80s , so it is reinforced by social media but not lead by it.

@BoredZelda

Don't wear makeup, be morally superior like me, gain my approval.

Careful you don’t hurt yourself with that leap to judgement. If women want to do it for whatever reason, it’s up to them. Feeling inferior because of the reasons, or trying to deny there is a fakery in it, is for them to deal with.

If I hurt myself, I'll cover the bruise with concealer.

If you think there haven't been any moralistic posts about trickery, fakery and so on, as if blusher were akin to a Ponzi scheme, you haven't been reading. There are several on this page alone. It's total bollocks. If you're shallow or whatever because you use makeup to gain approval, there's no virtue in deliberately leaving it off just to gain the approval of puritanical moralisers who are every bit as shallow about how they judge a face as those they decry.

It's makeup, not an investment scam. It's got no moral value.

[quote GrannyWeatherwaxsHatpin]**@MurmuratingStarling* and @pastypirate* I can’t take credit for it either, it’s JK Rowling’s [/quote]
@GrannyWeatherwaxsHatpin

"Fakery". If a person is too thick to realise purple eyelids and winged liner don't exist in nature, it's not anyone else's job to atone for that. Don't ever go to see a Hollywood film, the makeup is probably the least of it.

Nobody is pretending to have purple eyelids. They assume you realise it's there. And if you think that someone's face, painted or not, is who or what they are, there's no point trying to persuade you to look closer. That's pretty much the definition of shallow.

When I found out my (then) new GF wasn't actually pink and gold I felt so hard done by

When I found out my (then) new GF wasn't actually pink and gold I felt so hard done by

Like this?

I can get that not everyone will like this look, but it's interesting to look at and a form of art. Do people really think she's trying to fool anyone into thinking it's natural? Is the point even to make her look objectively beautiful?

I don't wear make up - my face is badly scarred but I don't hide. Fine if you do but I see no reason to hide my scars. I literally haven't worn it for over a decade.
What a man might prefer or understand about make up is completely irrelevant.
It depresses me no end when my niece wears make up, not because she prefers it but because she says it makes her look prettier and men prefer it.
My dp hasn't seen me with makeup on.

What do think will happen if they see your unmade up face?

Nothing but it’s never going to happen because I don’t want it to any more than I want them to see my naked body.

I follow quite a few MUA on Instagram and love the creativity of some of it. If I saw someone with the above I'd appreciate the artistry regardless

Its a mystery to me why all the people who purport to not give a shit about their appearance are so jnterested in other women's appearance and so scathing of the steps they take to enhance it. I don't give a shit about gardening, so you won't find me on the 'should I plant roses or hollyhocks...?' threads telling people they're only planting flowers to impress the neighbours. I've no interest, it's nothing to do with my life. Now, if I were a poor gardener who would secretly love a garden of flowers, or in the absence of that, didn't want anyone else having one either, I might be tempted to have a little peek....

That's lovely @DrSbaitso Like you say, make up can often be an artform.

@5128gap

... Almost without exception threads about women's looks bring out all the self proclaimed natural beauties/grow old gracefulies/better things to do with my higher mind-ers to pull down women who enhance their appearance.

Women who wear make up wouldn't give a fig that you don't, or probably even notice you in the first place. Yet, far from being impervious to it, the anti make up people seem pay a great deal of attention to other women's faces, and have a lot more to say on the subject than the other way around.

This. ^ In spades. The attacks on women who wear make up (from women who allegedly don't,) have been far more vicious and personal than the other way around.

All women who wear make up have said, is that they wear it, and they believe men find women more attractive when they're wearing it, and most women look better with it on. Nothing nasty, just an opinion that most women look more physically appealing. The no-make-up-brigade have been WAY more mean and cutting and vitriolic towards the women who wear make up.

I certainly never attacked anyone who didn't wear it, I just said that I genuinely believe MOST women look better WITH it, and I stand by that comment. Yeah many women look fine WITHOUT it, but MOST women will look better WITH it. I don't mean CAKED in it, but just a bit of mascara, lippy, eyeliner, and eye shadow, and maybe a bit of tinted moisturiser.

I usually wear a bit of make up when I go out, because I want to, because it makes me feel a bit fresher, and because I sometimes look tired and weary without it. I don't put it on to impress men OR other women, so people can DO ONE with THAT suggestion.

I want to wear it, and that is it, and it's got fuck-all to do with anyone else. I MAY wear it if I was on my own on a desert island, I may not. I don't fucking know . But I do know whether I WOULD wear it on a desert island or not, has fuck all to do with anyone, and I don't need to explain myself. And I am not out to impress anyone. It just makes ME feel better. So shoot me.

As as pp said, EVERYONE cares what others think, at some point, so don't anyone even go there with trying to make out you don't give a shit about what people think of you. You SO do. You really do! Be that your appearance, your home, your clothes, your shoes, your handbag, your car, your mothering skills, your job/career/income... EVERYONE wants to impress people at some time in their life. And for most of your life, you will try to impress people with something.

I have no idea why the 'I don't NEED to wear make up, because I'm not a fake insecure loser' brigade have such huge issues with other women wearing make up. But some of the posts on here (from the no-make-up-brigade) have been very vicious.

As I said, don't wear make up by ALL means, but quit the vitriol and personal attacks on those of us who do.

(I reckon the 'no-make-up-brigade' are the same ones who say they have no issue with their DH having a close female friend, and sharing hobbies with her and going away with her, and who claim they never shave their pubes, as their DH isn't attracted to toddlers. They seem like the same type...)