When men say "I prefer women without make-up"...

[ThingThatIBring]

AIBU to think that when men say "I prefer women without make-up" that they don't usually know what they're talking about (and don't usually have a clue that women ARE wearing it)?

The reality of this statement is usually:

• I don't like it when women wear really obvious MAKE-UP make-up (loads of lippy and false eyelashes etc) or when it's badly applied (making it obvious);
• I like really good-looking fresh-faced young women whose complexions, etc., look smooth without it;
• I like to think of myself as very wholesome (and maybe a bit of a feminist).

What they DON'T mean (but don't realise they don't mean) is:

• I prefer the look of the average woman of my own age without any make-up on.

I know so many men who say this, and it always mildly irritates me as it's said like it's a kind of virtue.

As a post-mating-phase human, it's not like it really affects my life. But it always makes me feel for all the women who are still in a position where they're affected by this nonsense...

"See what I did there? My opinion is as valid as yours."

It's not actually.
Even though we often say 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' it's not actually true. There are common beauty standards within certain populations that can be measured so you could take 1k women with and without makeup and have 1k strangers rank them and see whether they ones with makeup are ranked higher and you would see that your opinion is in the minority.

I often go make up free nowadays. But, I'm in my 50s and recently started using body shop CC cream. I look so much fresher! I caught sight of myself and thought wow I look so rested. Then remembered I'd put that on

It's kinda not up to men though is it my face my rules

@Gwenhwyfar - those common beauty standards vary quite a lot over time though due to fashion and who is popular. People used to laugh at my naturally dark 'big' eyebrows and now people compliment me on them and ask where i get them done. They are the same eyebrows but tastes have changed.
I think youthful looking and even toned (to look healthy) remain popular across a lot of time though.

men don't like the trickery

Lol, men who don't like 'the trickery' are men who believe women put on makeup purely to attract them.

I wonder are these men talking about makeup because their partners ask them about it?

Its not even a conversation around here. If I asked DP if he preferred me with or without makeup/what he thought of random womens' makeup I guess he'd answer.

It wouldnt occur to me to ask.

Its nobody's business whether you wear makeup or not unless youre silly enough to base your doings upon what other people have to say about it.

Men like who they like they're not one homogeneous mass, its quite insulting to imply they are. For as many that dont like makeup its very obvious in the real world that plenty of men dont mind it.

Otherwise women who wear makeup would struggle to find a partner.

Fresh faced or natural its all good, I wish women would just leave other women alone about this tbh.

My sons (18 & 22) have said this to me and I have taken it at face value. I'm pretty sure they are not controlling sexist pigs or leftie try hards! Most of their female friends tend to have that identikit look of perfect make up with shading, heavy foundation and big eyelashes (etc) and they prefer a more natural look. I'm pretty sure they don't go around spouting their opinion about this far and wide, it's just something that's come up in conversation between us

On the subject of men complaining about how long it takes for their female partner to get ready but expect them to look good when going out, I once made my DP a chart with pictures of my face and how long it would take me to look like that. The one he was used to seeing was 1.5hrs. He shut up about it after that

Frankly any sentence that starts with 'I prefer women with/without/who...' is a bit shit.

Ain’t that the truth. These men never stop to think for one teeny moment what the woman wants, it’s aaaalllll about them. Which brings me to :

Some men think wearing obvious makeup is signalling that you’re ‘available’. So although it’s part of what attracts them in the first place they also (subconsciously) don’t want their wife/girlfriend sending out those signals to other men. Hence the subtle negging that wearing makeup is undesirable.

And similarly insecure bullshit. My ex was a case in point; he liked me when I was all heels and makeup until we were in a relationship then he wanted me to be dowdy and plain, presumably in case I caught the eye of another man who’d take his woman. I refused to dress down and he was most certainly not happy about this. What I wanted was clearly immaterial and to that I can only say: fuck that shit.

Ah, my first boyfriend used to come out with this twaddle. He was apparently oblivious to my full slap unless he actually saw me applying it, and then he’d harrumph and puff. Silly man! It’s usually, in my experience, the same men who claim they ‘love a woman to look healthy not skinny’ and then present their girlfriend, a creature so wraithlike as to require tethering to the earth lest she float away. The ones who love women of intellect and frown upon the superficiality of looks, when what they mean is ‘I’ll take a goddess wearing something a bit scruffy, please’.

There's also a great song by Chvrches called he said she said, some lyrics are: "look good but don't be obsessed, be fed but keep an eye on your waistline". Sums it up for me.

Men don't bother with this level of pressure

Bless your naivete.

What do you think all those sweating men are doing at gyms all over the western world? Improving their cardiovascular function? 😂

The men buying exactly the right pair of jeans? Exactly the right car, which they lovingly work on all weekend?

All the men getting peaky blinders haircuts and expensive barber services? Buying beard oil by the gallon? And the market for hair regrowth serum is worth millions.

Men absolutely pay attention to markers of masculinity.

I am not daft enough to voice an opinion out loud. I know how long it takes Mrs breadfan to scrub up. But I do sometimes wake up and watch her asleep and see the lines that weren’t there 20 years ago and love that we have seen so much of life together. She’s still very discreet about my physical changes. 🙏

I've heard only one man say this before. He is completely overbearing with his partner and posts weird social media status' about 'his' beautiful GF like she's some sort of possession. Gives me the ick everytime I see his face. Incidentally she doesn't ever wear makeup so no idea why he has to make a song and dance about women who do wear makeup like their inferior or care at all what he thinks

Jeez oh, the man hating on here is rife tonight.

If they say it they don’t mean it, they are too stupid to know when a woman is wearing makeup or not, or they are pretending to be a nice guy but are actually raging misogynists. Or both.

I haven’t worn makeup since my 20s. Can’t be arsed with the faff. My husband seems not to care that I don’t. I couldn’t care less what any other man thinks about it.

Good job DH likes me without make-up, I've only put some on on 3 occasions in the past two years.
I look slightly more polished with it on, but that's about it.
I don't go for heavier styles as I don't think it does my skin or features any favours anyway. Heavy for me is a tinted moisturiser.
I'm still looking decent 20+ years on, and we're aging naturally together.

Frankly any sentence that starts with 'I prefer women with/without/who...' is a bit shit.

Ain’t that the truth. These men never stop to think for one teeny moment what the woman wants, it’s aaaalllll about them.

Presumably people are allowed to have a preference on what they find attractive? I prefer men without facial hair. I’m sure men who have it, do it for themselves and not to attract women. I also don’t particularly like the ripped look, or a guy who is immaculately groomed. It’s ok for men to state a preference for the kind of woman they prefer. Women have the choice whether they date a guy or not too.

One of my exes is now an Academic. He never liked me wearing make up said 'it's like women are wearing fake mask'. I asked him why? because his Mum wears it and he said 'I know, it's tarty'. I wore eyeshadow, mascara and lipstick fairly muted colours. no blusher ot foundation or bright colours. No other blokes commented or gave me a disapproving look when i wore it.

Never approved of me wearing it. I was 17 when we went out for a few years. He married someone who never wears makeup.

I felt free when i could wear it again.

My dh couldn't care less about the amount or lack of make-up I have on. Seriously couldn't give a monkeys. He says I look good with or without. He's delusional but I loves him I do.

Oh good, @BoredZelda, it was a reasonably sensible debate before. Thank goodness you’re here.

My point, if you bothered to think about it, is that men I reference couldn’t give one hoot what the woman in question wants. It’s not just a preference - which, of course, everyone is entitled to - it’s that, they want a woman to be only what they want her to be. It wouldn’t occur to them to find a woman who fits their ideals (probably because they don’t exist) - no, far easier to find a woman and make her conform. These aren’t cases where a man has a preference and keeps it to himself, it’s when he actively seeks to influence a woman’s choices. THAT’S what I have an issue with.

I don't care what men think about women wearing make up.

@BoredZelda

Frankly any sentence that starts with 'I prefer women with/without/who...' is a bit shit.

Ain’t that the truth. These men never stop to think for one teeny moment what the woman wants, it’s aaaalllll about them.

Presumably people are allowed to have a preference on what they find attractive? I prefer men without facial hair. I’m sure men who have it, do it for themselves and not to attract women. I also don’t particularly like the ripped look, or a guy who is immaculately groomed. It’s ok for men to state a preference for the kind of woman they prefer. Women have the choice whether they date a guy or not too.

I imagine you tell men who are wearing a beard that you would "prefer" them if they shaved it off?

No? Why not? Is it because it's nothing to do with you and you realise it would be really rude, and they wouldn't give a shit what you, a random woman, thinks?

I never wear makeup, never have. DH perfectly happy with me, together 42 years. DIL often over made up. Such a shame, on the odd time we've seen her without we both agree she looks much better. Ah well, each to their own!

I imagine you tell men who are wearing a beard that you would "prefer" them if they shaved it off?

No? Why not? Is it because it's nothing to do with you and you realise it would be really rude, and they wouldn't give a shit what you, a random woman, thinks?

Nowhere in the OP, did they speak about men going up to women wearing makeup and telling them not to wear makeup.

But crack on with the imaginary situations.

@TheVillageOfUpperDenture

One of my exes is now an Academic. He never liked me wearing make up said 'it's like women are wearing fake mask'. I asked him why? because his Mum wears it and he said 'I know, it's tarty'. I wore eyeshadow, mascara and lipstick fairly muted colours. no blusher ot foundation or bright colours. No other blokes commented or gave me a disapproving look when i wore it.

Never approved of me wearing it. I was 17 when we went out for a few years. He married someone who never wears makeup.

I felt free when i could wear it again.

I've had a similar experience with male academics. It's because academia is male dominated, and many (not all) successful female academics look and behave like men. They have to if they want to be taken seriously.

I wear make up and once worked with a male academic who used to complain about women wearing makeup. It made me feel really uncomfortable. A few months later he started coming on to me, despite the fact that he was 20 years older than me. Clearly he didn't dislike makeup that much....