If you left the corporate world to go into teaching what was the biggest shock?

[coodawoodashooda]

Just wondering. Usually we have threads from fed up teachers. Im a teacher, not looking for a fight. Just interested.

I’ve just started as a primary school TA after a career break of 7 years. I previously worked for a large bank in their head office. The biggest shocks to me are the pay and how one of the TAs said to me to not go in early to do laminating/photocopying etc (I’m talking 10 minutes). I’m happy to do a little bit extra for the benefit of the kids

@Beverley71

I’ve just started as a primary school TA after a career break of 7 years. I previously worked for a large bank in their head office. The biggest shocks to me are the pay and how one of the TAs said to me to not go in early to do laminating/photocopying etc (I’m talking 10 minutes). I’m happy to do a little bit extra for the benefit of the kids

You were shocked that someone didn't want to do extra work for no money? You've said how bad the pay is - people on low salaries such as a TA wage are hardly going to feel delighted to do extra work for no reward.

I left the corporate world to try teaching. I was shocked at the cliques amongst the school staff, by how massively talked down to and patronised I was by other teachers, and by how many fights I had to break up. I was also shocked by how many spit wads I found in my hair each day, and by how little most of the teachers seemed to actually like young people. It was awful. I couldn't hack it and I went back to the corporate world. I take my hat off to some of the amazing teachers my sons were lucky enough to have, they clearly followed a vocation, and these ones did actually like young people.

@Beverley71

I’ve just started as a primary school TA after a career break of 7 years. I previously worked for a large bank in their head office. The biggest shocks to me are the pay and how one of the TAs said to me to not go in early to do laminating/photocopying etc (I’m talking 10 minutes). I’m happy to do a little bit extra for the benefit of the kids

I think you need to stop for a minute and think why she said that.

Nearly all the TAs at my school had very tight budgets and family responsibilities. Many were single parents.
The danger in one TA working extra time regularly is that it can easily create an expectation among teaching staff or managers that maybe the other TAs should too. And people on minimum wage should not be expected to regularly do any more than their hours. And of course many might have to say no to those few minutes because they have their own kids' school drop offs and pick ups to do.

Suddenly those who can't work beyond than their start and finish times are suddenly seen as not as good, or not as commited, as the new person who's come in and is doing extra unpaid work.
Teachers do unpaid hours, TAs should not have to, nor should they be put in a position that they feel they need to in order to prove something.

That said, some of my TAs would do extra bits like that, but when they were more established and their outside school responsibilities or lack of, known to their teaching and non-teaching colleagues. A new person coming in has to tread more carefully.

Ooops. Need to lose one of those "suddenly"s. Editing error.

From a non UK perspective, it seems as though there’s a massive amount of wasted effort and duplication going on, with each teacher individually writing and endlessly rewriting lesson plans based on shifting curricula. When you add it up, it’s an enormous amount of unnecessary labour and surely teachers would be more effective in the classroom if they were fresher rather than exhausted. Why doesn’t the Department of Education standardise things or at least invest in the development of parameters that would reduce the amount of work involved in lesson planning? Are textbooks and workbooks not used?

"I know other teachers in state school primaries once fixed, do pretty much the same year on year."
@BigWoollyJumpers I can assure you that this isn't true sadly! I've been teaching primary for 12 years, and things change constantly. Nothing is ever fixed for any length of time unfortunately!

The sheer relentless bolshie recalcitrance of adolescents...some of them love being difficult for the buzz it gives them. Mind you, most of them are lovely; or at least perfectly pleasant.

A PP asked if countries like Ireland and Germany, which use standardised systems for lesson plans, perform better or worse than the UK.

I’ve copied the below from the OECD’s key findings on Better Life Index. www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/education/

Ireland outperforms the UK on all of the key findings. In Ireland, teachers are generally highly respected and have good work life balance and longer holidays than the UK (e.g. 3 months in summer at secondary, 2 months in summer at primary).

To me, this seems to undermine the argument than, unless lesson plans are prepared from scratch by each individual teacher, teaching cannot be effectively differentiated. Surely with the appropriate degree of discretion, teaching absolutely can. How could it be the case that standardisation works in Germany, Ireland and France, but not in the UK?

“Ireland

^^The Irish can expect to go through about17.9 years of educationbetween the ages of 5 and 39, in line with the OECD average of 18 years.

In Ireland,85%of adults aged 25-64 have completed upper secondary education, higher than the OECD average of 79%.

The average student in Ireland scored 505 in reading literacy, maths and sciences, above the OECD average of 488.

Germany

Germans can expect to go through about18.2 years of educationbetween the ages of 5 and 39, in line with the OECD average of 18 years.

In Germany,86%of adults aged 25-64 have completed upper secondary education, higher than the OECD average of 79%.

The average student in Germany scored 500 in reading literacy, maths and sciences,above the OECD average of 488.

UK

People in the United Kingdom can expect to go through16.8 years of educationbetween the ages of 5 and 39, below the OECD average of 18 years.
In the United Kingdom,82%of adults aged 25-64 have completed upper secondary education, higher than the OECD average of 79%.
The average student in the United Kingdom scored 503 in reading literacy, maths and sciences, above the OECD average of 488. “

As a teacher that joined the profession as a mature student, I was amazed at how the Head rules the school.
The primary School set up is quite parochial. And it is also very childish, and I mean that amongst the staff.
The problem is most teachers have never ever worked outside of educational environment
They start school at five yrs old, leave school at 18 - to continue in an educational world ar college, then they go straight into School again three years later.
So they have no experience of any other environment other than a school/education setting.
I think it should be compulsory for all school teachers to have at least one or two years in the private sector or some other work that does not revolve around school.

It’s never having a moment.
Not one blooming moment.
Once you’re out of teaching, you look back and think…how the heck did I do that for so long? I loved teaching but now, I’d never ever go back.
But the holidays were good!

A friend at my school who was a lawyer says it's the total and utter exhaustion that her friends still in law can't get their heads round.

For me a lot of friends from my old line of work on maternity leave said they were looking forward to going back to work because they could go to the toilet and have a cup of tea when they wanted. Clearly none of them were teachers!

As a volunteer in a local primary school I think the most noticible differences, the lack of respect parents show towards teachers in front of their children, it's hardly surprising the kids are so rude and are lacking any kind of common curtesy. When I was working in the city I never saw anyone speak to another member of staff with such venom and sheer lack of respect.

I also never ever had to pay for any stationary or equipment to do my job yet frequently teachers and ta's are having to buy bits and pieces for the classroom out of their own pockets. Almost weekly, having to buy pencils and glue sticks!

@SWS17 No, because a 'one size fits all' model just doesn't work. Curriculums are tailored to the needs of the children, which could vary wildly from the needs of the children in another school.

@Libertaire

I’m not a teacher, but I would imagine that getting 13 weeks off a year (or 16 in fee-paying schools) instead of 5 in the private sector would be a pretty major difference.

And If you believe that then you are just asking for trouble! I’ve been off five days and worked today! I will be working at least every other day in my ‘two week break’ which is part of my thirteen weeks a year.

I’m yet to endure a holiday where work doesn’t come into it. Nor can I have a full weekend where work doesn’t come into it either! I work till 10pm most nights!!!

@Nix32 thanks for your insight. Genuinely interested in your experience. It must be frustrating for teachers in the UK that their workload seems to be more difficult than those of European counterparts.

I suppose it’s just difficult to understand why this degree of individualised lesson planning is necessary when the OECD findings appear to show that the more standardised systems compare favourably to the UK system.

@SWS17 As far as I know Germany does not used a standardised lesson planning system. There is a curriculum that varies from state to state but in the states that I am familiar with teachers still have to plan their own lessons. They do use more textbooks and just follow those, though.

@PenOrPencil, thanks. I think my language was a bit clumsy - it’s not standardised in Ireland either, but use is made of resources like text books and workbooks so that no teacher is operating in a vacuum or starting from scratch, which is really reassuring for parents as they know that progression is benchmarked against the materials rather than being based on an individual teacher’s strength or weaknesses.

It would be highly unusual for a teacher in Ireland to be spending hours each evening devising lesson plans from scratch and having to tweak them in line with constant changes to the curriculum.

I was shocked at how unprofessionally the staff in my secondary school dressed. Women teachers wearing flipflops and vest tops for example.

@AngelicaElizaandPeggy I'm a UK teacher (state sector) and I am paid for my holidays (salary ÷12)

Worked in private sector offices, 1 public sector office and now teaching.

Private sector - more perks, had to work hard but had lulls in the day.
Public sector- lots of free time, roo many unnecessary meetings, lots of people doing very (just my experience so obviously not representative)

In teaching- I have quite a lot of autonomy but sometimes witness micro-managing. Experience very much depends on SLT. Behaviour is a real issue.

@Libertaire...that would be 13 weeks of time off per year that we aren't paid for but still work during because there aren't enough hours in our contracts to get the insane amount of work we have to do for prep/reporting/accountability done and completed to a high enough standard.
Just to clarify, teachers in England are paid for 1265 hours per year split across 39 working weeks including 5 days of staff training. However our contracts as stipulated by the government specify that, while these are our paid hours, we are also expected to work any additional hours deemed necessary to complete our job to the standards expected by school leaders. Literally in our contracts that we are expected to work hours for free.

To clarify my original comment further, yes we are paid during the holidays but we are not paid for them. We are paid for 1265 hours over 39 working weeks which is divided into 12 equal monthly payments.

I moved the other way and the biggest shock has been how much free time I have now I've left teaching.

I can see a few pillocks already on about the long holidays but seriously, having left teaching two years ago I get way more time off than I did then. Half terms and holidays were spent working full time hours prepping for the term ahead. Now if I take a week off it's a week off.

My relationships with friends and family are so much better because I'm not always working.

Also, people at work treat me with respect and like an actual human being unlike the head teachers and senior staff at school who treat you like dirt.

I forgot doing 25000 steps each day, sometimes before lunch

@MummyToOrla

To clarify my original comment further, yes we are paid during the holidays but we are not paid for them. We are paid for 1265 hours over 39 working weeks which is divided into 12 equal monthly payments.

🙏🏻Thank you for clarifying this for people who still don’t get it 🙄