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Original poster

The NHS in comparison to Spain is unfit for purpose . . .

265 replies

Lineofconcepcion · 03/04/2022 18:33

My partner was taken ill a couple of weeks ago, we're on an extended holiday to Spain and Portugal. We went to the nearest public hospital in Oveido. Within 5 minutes he was triaged, examined within half an hour, given iv painkillers within 40 minutes, seen by an a & e doctor within the hour. Diagnosed, put on an iv drip for antibiotics within another half hour. Completed this, had the cannula removed, discharged with a prescription all within 2 hours. I was allowed with him during the whole of the treatment/examination. Treated amazingly well, faultless, lovely staff, who uploaded Google translate, to communicate better. All this on a GHIC card.

If it had been the NHS we would have waited 12 hours to be seen, denied my entry to be with him and generally be pissed off by the lack of care.

Where has it all gone so wrong?

OP posts:
Mariposista · 03/04/2022 21:48

[quote worriedatthistime]@Mariposista why could you not go to a & e? Also i have been in a&e last few weeks and carers etc were allowed in[/quote]
Yeah you probably can now. This was a while ago. That was the rule at the time at our trust, you could only be sent/referred to A and E, you couldn’t just turn up.

AlternativePerspective · 03/04/2022 21:52

Yeah you probably can now. This was a while ago. That was the rule at the time at our trust, you could only be sent/referred to A and E, you couldn’t just turn up. that was likely during the lockdowns, which incidentally in Spain were far stricter than here with people not permitted to go out at all, and with awful stories of care homes being left abandoned and dead bodies being found in them.

I have had nothing but positive experiences of the NHS, and I know people who have fallen ill in Spain and have nothing good to say about their care over there.

Swings and roundabouts.

SucculentChalice · 03/04/2022 21:53

I also had a good experience in a Spanish hospital when taken ill on hospital. Waiting wasn't that quick but I was admitted and given a scan very quickly. That meant I was diagnosed and treated, but what was really impressive is that it was the weekend at nighttime, and the consultant popped in to see me personally to explain what was wrong with me.

They were quite keen to do surgery quickly but fortunately it self resolved and I was discharged after a few days. I thought the care was a bit more personal and less brutal than can sometimes be the case in the NHS.

tttigress · 03/04/2022 21:55

The NHS see themselves as above criticism.

In the recent maternity deaths inquiry, it was shown that the NHS trust had told the parents trying to get answers to drop the complaints as they were being irrational due to suffering from "extreme grief".

greef · 03/04/2022 21:56

@LethargeMarg

I don't agree. My dad was on a ward and diagnosed with a broken hip four hours from my mum calling 111 five weeks ago. His care has been brilliant

And my mum broke her hip and I waited with her six hours for an ambulance on the side of the road, the paramedics were rough with her, shouted at her and then she waited three hours in A & E while staff rolled their eyes and made derogatory comments about a "psych" patient sobbing in the waiting area who had already been sent away once. I posted a ranty social media post, got nothing but abuse for daring to criticise, as if nhs staff are beyond reproach, beyond scrutiny

My point is that Individual anecdotal experiences are meaningless. What we should be demanding is transparency and a breakdown of how our money is being spent and what this translates to. They can send us letters telling us how much a missed appointment costs. There is clearly performance data available, make this accessible

ChloeHel · 03/04/2022 21:59

@Thejoyfulstar mmhmm…GP’s can be very reluctant to prescribe certain medications on an NHS prescription, yet are happy to prescribe paracetamol when you can buy that for 32p OTC. I’ve had to tell so many of my patients who can’t get something from their GP if they really want a medication they’ll have to go private.

Although I’ve had serious issues with patients who go private because they don’t want to or can’t wait for an NHS GP appt and then when they come in the pharmacy with their private script and we say that’ll be x amount please, they go absolutely wild, refuse to pay for it and storm out. You can’t please everyone unfortunately.

TruffleShuffles · 03/04/2022 22:01

@AlternativePerspective

If it’s so brilliant then why do thousands of Brits living in Spain relocate back to the UK when diagnosed with illnesses so they can be treated on the NHS?
Well from my experience of living in Spain it’s because most of them live off the grid so aren’t entitled to Spanish healthcare as Spain don’t even know they are there. The ones who work or are retired and are entitled to use Spanish healthcare always use it when needed.
Smokeahontas · 03/04/2022 22:03

Off the top of my head -

Morecambe Bay
Bristol
Alder Hey
Stafford
Hyponatremia / Watt in Northern Ireland
QE hospital in Glasgow
Gosport
Shrewsbury and Telford
A woman being raped by a trans woman (man) but was told, as were the police, that that couldn’t have happened as there was no man on the ward.

Keep throwing money at it.

Wrongkindofovercoat · 03/04/2022 22:10

The NHS see themselves as above criticism

No they don't, some areas have been very badly managed at certain times and absolutely deserve the criticism they have been given. Does that mean the whole of the NHS is the same ? If you work with someone who doesn't pull their weight and you end up doing the lion's share of the work, should you be criticised as much as them ?
The NHS works as well as it can most of the time, but there will always be pressures on it because it has a very limited resource to offer to a hell of a lot of people.
It is perfectly normal for it to run at dangerous bed occupancy levels for several months of the year, every year. When I started, Winter ( November to February) was always busy, then it would slow down and you would get a lull, now there is no lull and Winter pressures last from October to April, sometimes longer ( gives Covid the side eye ).
That pressure on beds means much longer A&E wait times, unsafe discharges and people not getting the level of care they need or deserve.

I am very much looking forward to all the brand new hospitals being built, how many was it again ? Hmm

Wrongkindofovercoat · 03/04/2022 22:13

@TruffleShuffles The ones who work or are retired and are entitled to use Spanish healthcare always use it when needed

Since Brexit do they need to be citizens or can they be UK citizens and still access Spanish healthcare free of charge ?

worriedatthistime · 03/04/2022 22:17

@Mariposista I would of just gone anyway once your there they have to at least triage

LaMagdalena · 03/04/2022 22:18

[quote Wrongkindofovercoat]**@TruffleShuffles* The ones who work or are retired and are entitled to use Spanish healthcare always use it when needed*

Since Brexit do they need to be citizens or can they be UK citizens and still access Spanish healthcare free of charge ?[/quote]
They need to be legally resident, not citizens, same as before (but now it's harder to become resident).

LaMagdalena · 03/04/2022 22:19

Actually I'm wrong, UK citizens might need to pay privately now (someone can correct me)...

worriedatthistime · 03/04/2022 22:20

Having a huge impact on a&e near me due to being nigh on impossible to get a go appt as well
My surgery told me to go to a & e for some dressing care the other day rather than let me speak to the nurse , ridiculous

EthelsAuntie · 03/04/2022 22:20

Having just come out of hospital today. I would say I am terrified by the NHS. It was chronically understaffed and they had to shut numerous wards over the weekend. Most of the nurses were bank staff and those who were actually from the ward were trying to show these new people the ropes whilst basically running the department solo.
I've been shown how to take a drug this afternoon that would normally be only administered at hospital. They basically did a competency test on me. I passed so got shown how to inject myself, the signs of infection, a staple remover and some of my meds. I had open bowel surgery on Monday. I have to arrange getting the 20 staples out with the gp and also arrange to get my bloods checked again to make sure that it really was just the steroids and the heat that put my pulse up, temp up and white blood cell count up. I will do the injections myself and track my temperature. I feel I should maybe have stayed in hospital at least another couple of days but i will do this and keep my fingers crossed that everything keeps going smoothly.
I'm just glad that my bowel perforated last week and not this week as the consultant who did my surgery was fab. The guy who took over at the end of the week didn't fill me with confidence. Telling me he was sure my Crohns is now cured. News flash it can't be cured yet. He also hadn't bothered to read my notes and the first thing he said today was that he wanted to see my stoma. I didn't get one. He tried to argue until I said I was fairly certain I might have noticed since Monday if I had a stoma.
They are dangerously stretched. I've had many admissions over the years this was my biggest op. I was very, very sick. This is my shortest hospital stay and I still feel I'm not out of the woods yet.
I was given wonderful care by wonderful staff but mistakes are being made because they are overworked.
Something has to change. I love our NHS but it is being starved of funding and investment.

thegreylady · 03/04/2022 22:21

The problem is that when the NHS started the costs of drugs, treatments etc were manageable funded by NI. There have been amazing advances in all areas of medicine but these come at a cost and NHS funding isn’t always feasible.We will only improve the service if we pay more. About 17 years ago we had some private health insurance included with our house insurance for a relatively low cost. Dh was too old but I was accepted. Six months later I was dx with an aggressive breast cancer. The insurance paid for two drugs not then available on the NHS. One cost £1000 per injection and the other £800. Both have now been approved by NICE. I believe I am probably alive today because of that £20 a month policy.

TruffleShuffles · 03/04/2022 22:28

[quote Wrongkindofovercoat]**@TruffleShuffles* The ones who work or are retired and are entitled to use Spanish healthcare always use it when needed*

Since Brexit do they need to be citizens or can they be UK citizens and still access Spanish healthcare free of charge ?[/quote]
They need residency to reside in Spain but this still doesn’t entitle you to Spanish healthcare. You need to be working and paying into the system, some areas do allow you to pay a monthly fee to access basic healthcare and if you are a pensioner you can also access the health system.

Pre brexit a lot of Brits didn’t bother applying for residency and rented properties privately to live there. Brexit has meant a lot of these Brits have moved back home as they can’t now move freely between the two countries.

TruffleShuffles · 03/04/2022 22:30

@LaMagdalena

Actually I'm wrong, UK citizens might need to pay privately now (someone can correct me)...
It’s never been the case that residency entitles you to access the Spanish health system. If you moved out there pre retirement and didn’t plan to work you always had to have private healthcare in place to apply for residency.
Wrongkindofovercoat · 03/04/2022 22:32

@TruffleShuffles so if you are a UK pensioner who moved to Spain once you retired you are still entitled to full free healthcare in Spain ?

hopeso · 03/04/2022 22:34

If you think privatising the NHS is the way forward, then you have not been paying attention. The government is driving the NHS into the ground by underfunding while outsourcing more services to private companies. The NHS Bill will allow an an increasing role for these companies. Do you really want the likes of Richard Branson to decide where our money should be spent and on what? The NHS spends a lot of time mopping up the mistakes of the private sector - remember, their bottom line is profit and shareholder dividends, while the NHS's is to treat people and save lives.

Wrongkindofovercoat · 03/04/2022 22:34

Sorry just seen your update, how much is health insurance for a post retirement aged person in Spain, do you know ?

LndnGrl · 03/04/2022 22:34

@Lineofconcepcion

My partner was taken ill a couple of weeks ago, we're on an extended holiday to Spain and Portugal. We went to the nearest public hospital in Oveido. Within 5 minutes he was triaged, examined within half an hour, given iv painkillers within 40 minutes, seen by an a & e doctor within the hour. Diagnosed, put on an iv drip for antibiotics within another half hour. Completed this, had the cannula removed, discharged with a prescription all within 2 hours. I was allowed with him during the whole of the treatment/examination. Treated amazingly well, faultless, lovely staff, who uploaded Google translate, to communicate better. All this on a GHIC card.

If it had been the NHS we would have waited 12 hours to be seen, denied my entry to be with him and generally be pissed off by the lack of care.

Where has it all gone so wrong?

Spain doesn't let all and sundry use their healthcare. You have to pay in for a certain amount of time first, otherwise you have to have private cover. Plus they dont have umpteen useless managers, red-tape and bureaucracy. They are allowed and encouraged to use common sense.
notimagain · 03/04/2022 22:34

@LaMagdalena

Actually I'm wrong, UK citizens might need to pay privately now (someone can correct me)...
It may be much the same set up as exists for other Brits resident in EU countries: how much, if anything, you pay into the local system may depend on whether the individual is a holder of a UK form S1 - issued if you still pay UK National Insurance (that is possible even if not resident in the UK) or are in receipt of a UK state pension...
LaMagdalena · 03/04/2022 22:35

Okay, I am corrected. I didn’t really mingle with many post-work but pre-retirement people!

TruffleShuffles · 03/04/2022 22:39

[quote Wrongkindofovercoat]@TruffleShuffles so if you are a UK pensioner who moved to Spain once you retired you are still entitled to full free healthcare in Spain ?[/quote]
Yes you are, you request an S1 form and then hand this over in Spain which allows you access. They was a worry after brexit that this wouldn’t continue but Spain and the U.K. have agreed to carry it on.