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Original poster

The NHS in comparison to Spain is unfit for purpose . . .

265 replies

Lineofconcepcion · 03/04/2022 18:33

My partner was taken ill a couple of weeks ago, we're on an extended holiday to Spain and Portugal. We went to the nearest public hospital in Oveido. Within 5 minutes he was triaged, examined within half an hour, given iv painkillers within 40 minutes, seen by an a & e doctor within the hour. Diagnosed, put on an iv drip for antibiotics within another half hour. Completed this, had the cannula removed, discharged with a prescription all within 2 hours. I was allowed with him during the whole of the treatment/examination. Treated amazingly well, faultless, lovely staff, who uploaded Google translate, to communicate better. All this on a GHIC card.

If it had been the NHS we would have waited 12 hours to be seen, denied my entry to be with him and generally be pissed off by the lack of care.

Where has it all gone so wrong?

OP posts:
Nelia5 · 03/04/2022 19:08

People in Germany have higher deductions from their wages to cover health care contributions

BambinaJAS · 03/04/2022 19:09

The way GHIC works.

Is that its free at the point of care (only for emergency) for UK person in Spain BUT..

The UK Govt pays the Spanish Govt for this cost.

HRTQueen · 03/04/2022 19:09

The NHS needs reforming

We also need to pay more a lot more

EngTech · 03/04/2022 19:10

The NHS that was created is now not the same NHS today 😔

The waste and inefficiency is horrendous 😳😳

FrankLeeSpeaking · 03/04/2022 19:10

You may or may not have waited 12 hours to be seen in the UK; it depends entirely how urgent your needs are, so YABU to assume that it would have taken so long.

Otherwise, yes, the NHS is badly managed and short staffed when it comes to patient facing frontline staff.

BambinaJAS · 03/04/2022 19:10

@Nelia5

People in Germany have higher deductions from their wages to cover health care contributions
Yes.

They have a more public-private model though.

Public for GPs
Private for Specialists

Similar to Australian system

BambinaJAS · 03/04/2022 19:11

@HRTQueen

The NHS needs reforming

We also need to pay more a lot more

Easy solution.

Remove the cap on NI.

Lot of revenue there.

gogohm · 03/04/2022 19:12

Have you lived in any of these countries? I don't know about Spain but dp has staff in Germany and they have to pay a lot of money for health and social insurance, around 3x the cost of U.K. employees

IcedPurple · 03/04/2022 19:13

@LethargeMarg

I have honestly lost count of how many anti nhs threads there are on mumsnet at the moment. It really is worrying how much people appear desperate for it to fail and private healthcare to creep in. The problem in the uk is no party is brave enough to up taxes to properly fund healthcare like they do on the continent.
Has anyone said 'The NHS is on its knees' yet?
ZaraSizeMedium · 03/04/2022 19:13

My SIL works for the NHS in a clinical role, she’s there to rinse it for every bit of sick leave, carers leave, bereavement leave, covid leave, etc she can get. She knows the sickness policy inside out and can tell you to the exact date when she can next go off sick on full pay, and she always makes a miraculous recovery to return to work on the exact day she’s due to go onto half pay.

I’ve worked for the NHS myself and seen the ridiculous spending at the end of each financial year because the budgets have been “use it or lose it”, I’ve seen 15k spent on printer cartridges for printers that were scrapped 3 months later because there was a surplus of stationary budget and if it were up to me honestly I’d sack about 40% of the staff and start again if I was in charge.

Apandemicyousay · 03/04/2022 19:14

I assume you don’t work for the NHS, but it’s a bit of both. Could be managed better, needs much more cash. How do you see a doctor in Spain within 30 minutes, and not 4 hours? Get more doctors…. Look at staffing ratios across Europe, other countries run a surplus where empty ICU beds are seen as essential to provide safe care, whereas here they regarded as ‘surplus’ and wasteful and therefore cut. When shit hits fan (covid) there’s zero capacity.

Kendodd · 03/04/2022 19:14

It's funny on these sorts of threads posters always go on about how inefficient and wasteful the NHS is, and yet the WHO ranks it as very efficient compared to other systems. If performs particularly well at protecting people for the costs of healthcare.
Still, that's just the WHO's opinion, what would they know.

OrangeBlossomsinthesun · 03/04/2022 19:14

Spain has the same system basically as the uk in that health care is funded through taxes and free at the point of use.
It's not always brilliant, but in my 20 year experience in Spain is generally good and I don't live in the middle of nowhere or anything, live near a major city in one of the most populated regions.

HRTQueen · 03/04/2022 19:15

Of course it’s not the same. It was inconceivable in 1948 that we would be living so long and medical science would have advanced the way it has

The costs of sown equipment itself is staggering

But we want excellent service and to pay very little

madroid · 03/04/2022 19:16

The NHS doesn't need reform it needs staff.

There has been a 40k shortfall of nurses for almost a decade so the staff that are there are stressed because they can't give the care they want to a lot of the time.

Then there is the 10k doctor shortfall.

Plus a GP appt round here is as rare as hens' teeth. So what do people do? They go to the hospital and so it goes on.

We need to invest in recruitment and better working conditions for nurses and doctors. And stop spending ££££ on agency staff.

Georgeskitchen · 03/04/2022 19:17

@bringmelaughter

The NHS in comparison to Spain is underfunded for it’s purpose . . .

There we go, I fixed the title.

The NHS is NOT underfunded. It has billions and billions thrown into it. Its mismanaged , that is the reason. The government has thrown another load of money so what have they done? Hired a load of chief execs on six figure salaries. Close relative of mine is a NHS doctor and tells me often that all the staff on the front line feels the same. Too many people with no medical qualifications marching around with clipboards, hoards of lazy pointless staff that can't do the job but are almost impossible to get rid of. The NHS needs radical reform but no government has been brave enough to actually do it!!
BambinaJAS · 03/04/2022 19:20

The NHS is being systematically starved of nurses and GPs by Tory policies.

Those folks are the backbone of the NHS.

And the reason why NHS needs more and more revenues is because the UK population is aging. And those older folks require more and more expensive treatments and drugs.

None of this is rocket science.

Kaw10 · 03/04/2022 19:20

"They have a more public-private model though.

Public for GPs
Private for Specialists

Similar to Australian system"

Not sure exactly what's meant here. I'm publicly insured (this is mandatory if you earn up to a certain amount per year, after that you can choose to go private) and I pay 7% of my salary to the public health insurer each month.

If I have a problem with my skin I can directly book an appointment with a dermatologist, if I have joint pain with a sports doctor (ortho?). In November 2017 I booked directly with an Ear Nose Throat specialist due to sinus problems and was operated on 2 months later. No referrals needed, never saw a GP. Haven't seen a GP in years....all my smear tests are done by a gynaecologist as is the case for all women.

Public insurance. Didn't pay anything extra. Pretty happy with the system here!

Unsure33 · 03/04/2022 19:21

I think the fact that some NhS regional mannagers are paid more than the pm and then when something goes drastically wrong are not accountable is quite frankly criminal .

Kaw10 · 03/04/2022 19:21

Sorry forgot to say, I'm in Germany!

SaggyBlinders · 03/04/2022 19:23

What was he diagnosed with that meant they gave him one dose of IV antibiotics and then discharged him, all in less than 2 hours? Bizarre.

I wonder what your experience would have been like if he had been admitted to a ward. I worked with Spanish nurses who came over to work in the UK a few years ago, I remember them telling me how suprised they were to have 8 or 10 patients each on the ward, as in Spain they had more patients. But they also me that in Spain it is common for family members to provide basic nursing care to their family members while they are in hospital. So they were used to having more patients per nurse, but not doing anything like helping people to eat, wash and dress etc, that was all provided by families.

gogohm · 03/04/2022 19:24

@Kendodd

The nhs had the best healthcare based on money spent of anywhere in the world, everywhere else costs more money, is it any surprise you get better care of you spend more?

bluejelly · 03/04/2022 19:24

I don't think the NHS is failing. I think it is underfunded and the staff underpaid and under supported. What they achieve in the face of these challenges is incredible.
And one anecdote is really not a valid comparison (though glad you had a good experience OP).

SaggyBlinders · 03/04/2022 19:25

And I'm not sure that the situation is that much better in Spain, the reason these nurses came over was because they couldn't get a nursing job in Spain. They didn't want to leave.

bringmelaughter · 03/04/2022 19:25

@OverByYer

The nhs is not under funded it’s badly managed and wasteful of its resources.
Please can you post the evidence for this? Figures on funding, expenditure and wastage. Thanks