The NHS in comparison to Spain is unfit for purpose . . .

[Lineofconcepcion]

My partner was taken ill a couple of weeks ago, we're on an extended holiday to Spain and Portugal. We went to the nearest public hospital in Oveido. Within 5 minutes he was triaged, examined within half an hour, given iv painkillers within 40 minutes, seen by an a & e doctor within the hour. Diagnosed, put on an iv drip for antibiotics within another half hour. Completed this, had the cannula removed, discharged with a prescription all within 2 hours. I was allowed with him during the whole of the treatment/examination. Treated amazingly well, faultless, lovely staff, who uploaded Google translate, to communicate better. All this on a GHIC card.

If it had been the NHS we would have waited 12 hours to be seen, denied my entry to be with him and generally be pissed off by the lack of care.

Where has it all gone so wrong?

My parents live in Spain. Dad was admitted to hospital 4 weeks ago ( he's 78) and mum sent home as she wasn't allowed to he with him due to covid

There just aren’t enough staff + defensive medicine due to fear of litigation.

But they also me that in Spain it is common for family members to provide basic nursing care to their family members while they are in hospital. So they were used to having more patients per nurse, but not doing anything like helping people to eat, wash and dress etc, that was all provided by families.

This was very much my relative's experience, but I didn't mention it as it was a few years ago and I wasn't sure if this was still the case. She said the nurses pretty much refused to do any personal care and she ran herself ragged.

@Fluffycloudland77

I agree, I literally tell strangers to get private cover now.

Wednesday dh was told his breathing problems were anxiety, Thursday I took him to a+e because his goitre is occluding his airway causing stenosis and he’s still in there as it’s an emergency if you can’t breathe…

It’s like a fucking game show “you said Anxiety, our survey said….stenosis” 🙄 but there is no comeback to drs. The gmc isn’t going to reprimand anyone, it becomes a “learning experience”.

Doctors are humans too! They aren’t going to get it right every single time! Do you get everything right every single time ?

Can't say re France but can say my mother in law experience in Belgium was awful as was dad's experience in France. In both cases they lucky to be slive. My mother in law went straight from the channel tunnel to a UK a and e after a weekend trip that turned into hell. Think like most things it depends where you go. My dad can't fault the nhs where he is who fixed something that could have killed him in less than hour he was taken from doctor, scanned and operated on. My dad having to use the NHS alot at the moment due to cancer and bad amazing treatment

I've given birth in 3 different countries and my NHS delivery was by far the most positive experience. The birth itself got a bit gory but it was handled so well and I felt so cared for. The communication and after care were excellent too. The others were pretty disappointing in comparison. I agree that one snapshot of a trip to A and E doesn't really show the weak spots in that country's medical system. I just had a baby abroad and felt very homesick for the NHS the whole time.

@Capturetotalelotion private doctors can prescribe medication. Both myself and my daughter have had drugs on private prescription. I've been on a certain drug since birth, will have to take it till the day I die... NHS GP cocked up my repeat, for some reason unknown to me 2 weeks later GP still couldn't issue a prescription. 10 phone calls later they promised it would be issued in 4 working days. I got it in a matter of hours with a call to consultant who issued a private prescription for me. Fine I had to pay for the drugs but I need them and if I don't take them I'd end up in A&E. 8 doctors in the GP surgery not one who could sign a frigging prescription. If that's ''efficient'' then frankly they don't know the meaning of the word...

NHS also refused to issue the drugs my daughter needed as a baby because it was £50 a bottle - she had a very rare disease. I'll never forget standing in the pharmacy at the NHS GPs surgery being told by the pharmacist ''do you know how much this costs? Do you really need it??'' I got a private prescription and went to Sainsbury's to fill it - at least I wasn't made to feel guilty.

My Mother worked in the NHS in the 1970's as a Senior Staff nurse. She agrees that the NHS at it's height was the envy of the world however her view of the NHS today is that it's a disgrace, inefficient, wasteful, bureaucratic, giving a level of care that would never have been allowed in her day. Like she says: hospitals were run by doctors and nurses in my day - NOT administrators. Communication was seamless between departments and accountability taken for all aspects of patient care. Today you're just pushed from pillar to post, no one talks to one another, no one takes responsibility for the patient.

How much would people be willing to pay on top of energy price hikes , fuel price increases , food , interest rates going up etc to have a better service ? £50 a month, £100 a month, £250 for a family of four ?

Where will the additional beds come from, we have one of the lowest number of acute beds already, plus the staff ?

Remember that privatising things in the UK doesn't mean a better service or a more efficent service, look at energy companies, phone and internet providers, water companies, rail networks etc The shareholder is God and the customer is the cash cow and treated like poo on a shoe.
Private healthcare works well at the moment because they only have to care for a limited number of people with specific illnesses and insurance or deep pockets, scale that up by 10's of millions and I am not sure it would any better than the NHS, at least not in its current model.

Doctors are humans too! They aren’t going to get it right every single time!

Spot on

However they also have a great deal of trust placed in them, and it really doesn't help when they lie, fob off and close ranks at the slighest suggestion of a problem - even when it turns out one of their number has just killed someone

@DalarnaHorses

But they also me that in Spain it is common for family members to provide basic nursing care to their family members while they are in hospital. So they were used to having more patients per nurse, but not doing anything like helping people to eat, wash and dress etc, that was all provided by families.

This was very much my relative's experience, but I didn't mention it as it was a few years ago and I wasn't sure if this was still the case. She said the nurses pretty much refused to do any personal care and she ran herself ragged.

Families do tend to stay all the time but ime it is absolutely not the case that if there is no family there they refuse to do it. I did not have that experience for two births (nobody able to be with me) and a relative had spinal surgery and nobody was able to stay with her and the nurses did everything she needed, bed pans, showers etc.

I'd be inclined to agree.
I was in hospital last week as a matter of emergency, I needed some steroid jabs because they wanted me inducing.

Whilst in hospital they managed to give me one steroid jab before the 12 hours was up, they wanted to wait 24 hours before the second when the plan was to induce me in the morning.
I asked if I could get some aspirin because I'd been told yo take it throughout my pregnancy to avoid pre-eclampsia. They handed me some opioid painkillers instead.
I said, no I don't have my aspirin, that's what I asked for. I was in for having placenta issues. I never received my aspirin but was told I could take the painkillers if I wanted... despite not being in pain.

I go private whenever I can manage to.

I had to call out dr in temerife cost me €120 but was worth it and at least an option
What is a GHIC card ,? Is it same as the old card as going to feurteventura soon and wasn't sure if we still had agreement

how are all of these other health care systems funded ?

@cptartapp

Spanish pensioners pay between 8-18 euros towards their prescriptions. Ours get them all for free, regardless of financial circumstances.

The prescription for 10 days antibiotics and anti inflammatories was 4.40E so around £3.60 . . .

@Lineofconcepcion but is the rest covered by uk goverment ?
Your care wouldn't of been free it will get billed to nhs

My Mother worked in the NHS in the 1970's as a Senior Staff nurse

With the greatest of respect, your Mother probably didn't do half the things nurses today do, IV antibiotics were given by Doctors and in our town they had to run between the two hospitals to do it, cannulation, passing NG tubes, Male catheters, chemotherapy administration, etc etc. That doesn't mean she wasn't bloody good at her job, it just means that things have changed somewhat in the last 50 years.
The role of the nurse has meant taking on more and more responsibility and tasks that were previously the domain of medical staff, but with no additional staff and a massive reduction in the number of beds available for all types of patient, whilst the number of people in the population and therefore needing those beds has risen. So in 1975 there were about 500k hospital beds for all purposes and in 2022 there were about 150k. The population has increased by about 10 million between 1975 and 2022.

I suppose we could introduce bunkbeds, fit and sick on the top and not so fit and sick on the bottom ?

I am a medical translator in Spain, and I agree they have a very good system. They are sensible about allowing patients to have a relative with them, provided they don't get in the way of medical care, and treatment is swift, and more importantly FACE TO FACE. I greatly admire the NHS too, and I know we are lucky to have it, but the horrible experience we had last summer when my poor 90 year old gran had a nosebleed (really not emergency material, but as she is on blood thinners it just didn't stop pumping out for 4 hours), all surgeries online only, no minor injuries, can't just show up at A&E, so ended up sending her in, on her own, in an ambulance. For a nose bleed??? Such a waste of resources when that could easily be sorted out at the medical centre/walk in. Nobody could go with her, and while she is very comps mantis, at 90 she could have done with some company. My colleagues in Spain were horrified.

Spain spends a higher percentage of its GDP

USA spends more GDP on healthcare than any other western nation, so that doesn’t mean much in my book

@Mariposista why could you not go to a & e? Also i have been in a&e last few weeks and carers etc were allowed in

European social insurance system, any hospital treating patients like that would be out of business (and good riddance). There can never be meaningful change unless the patient has a choice.

I've often thought this is precisely why care is better in Europe. If you treat patients like shit, they go elsewhere so it's in their interest to provide excellent care.

Thing is I have had good care and bad care in the nhs it just depends on the day
Sure same is sometimes true anywhere in the world
We have a huge population and hospitals seem to of not been built at the same speed as all houses etc

If it’s so brilliant then why do thousands of Brits living in Spain relocate back to the UK when diagnosed with illnesses so they can be treated on the NHS?

Well as an ICU nurse in the NHS I have cared for quite a few critically ill patients who have become unwell on holiday and been repatriated from Spanish hospitals and they arrive with many hospital acquired infections (not good anti microbial stewardship there it seems) and many pressure sores (don’t think they actually turn and wash patients in the Spanish ICUs) so no - is rather be critically ill in the U.K. thanks