The NHS in comparison to Spain is unfit for purpose . . .

[Lineofconcepcion]

My partner was taken ill a couple of weeks ago, we're on an extended holiday to Spain and Portugal. We went to the nearest public hospital in Oveido. Within 5 minutes he was triaged, examined within half an hour, given iv painkillers within 40 minutes, seen by an a & e doctor within the hour. Diagnosed, put on an iv drip for antibiotics within another half hour. Completed this, had the cannula removed, discharged with a prescription all within 2 hours. I was allowed with him during the whole of the treatment/examination. Treated amazingly well, faultless, lovely staff, who uploaded Google translate, to communicate better. All this on a GHIC card.

If it had been the NHS we would have waited 12 hours to be seen, denied my entry to be with him and generally be pissed off by the lack of care.

Where has it all gone so wrong?

I also think the UK population is likely to be older, more obese and more prone to substance abuse than the Spanish

It absolutely does need reforming

Far far too many inefficient staff, too many middle management, too many different departments, ridiculous amount of meetings and filling out forms and repeated spreadsheets, things being changed around when they work perfectly well (that doesn’t meant there isn’t room for improvement) and staff seconded and teams left without a valuable member of their team one who has built up very important relationships with patients they work with. Having to work within quotas the list is endless

Our facilities staff who walk round with a clip board are on a high wage they would struggle to organise a piss up on a brewery it took four staff to look at a fire door. The incompetence of some staff is embarrassing and we all know if you work for the NHS is almost impossible to get sacked from. Like pp sil I know many who absolutely take the piss they have had months off self isolating 🙄 now they are off sick with stress ffs they were hardly at work

Next time you need the NHS remember the catty comments you made on here and hang your head in shame. The NHS staff are not there to be slagged off because you had one quick experience in Spain. They work hard, under stress and pressure and do it all on shit pay.

@Blossomtoes

Spain spends a higher percentage of its GDP on healthcare. It’s obviously going to be better. You get what you pay for.

No it doesn’t it spends less. Not sure you can assess a whole system based on one experience. Perhaps Spanish people look after their own health more, so don’t put so many demands on their health service?

@Anycrispsleft

It's the same in Germany. The healthcare is so, so much better. It frustrates me so much when ppl in the UK resist change to the NHS because "you wouldn't want a system like the US" - well no, but a system like France, Germany, Switzerland or Belguim would be just fine.

but the thing is we wouldn't get that - we would get a US system.

Also I am not sure the NHS is significantly underfunded, it's just badly managed and inefficient. And refuses to learn lessons - look at the maternity care scandal.

A simple example of underfunding in the nhs is that now if your child needs braces you will have a three year wait for nhs treatment and only get this if it's really extreme. My orthodontist told me this is not to do with covid it is purely cuts to funding that they have such long waiting lists for nhs treatment and very few actually get it as they have to be so selective now.

@Kendodd

It's funny on these sorts of threads posters always go on about how inefficient and wasteful the NHS is, and yet the WHO ranks it as very efficient compared to other systems. If performs particularly well at protecting people for the costs of healthcare. Still, that's just the WHO's opinion, what would they know.

I have a two word answer for the WHO, Shropshire Maternity . . . an absolute bloody disgrace.

@Fairyliz, Spain spends 8.9% of GDP on health. The UK spends 7.2%.

We would not get a US system. Stop being ridiculous. We need to reform the NHS. It’s not fit for purpose.

@romdowa

In contrast the hse here in the Republic of Ireland makes the NHS look amazing . I recently received a letter asking me did I still want to be on a waiting list for a Dr that I was referred to 5 years ago 🤣 i lived for nearly 3 years in the UK and always found the NHS fantastic compared to the shit show here at home. My neighbours 90 year old mother recently got an appointment for cataract surgery .... for 10 years time 🙈

I agree entirely sadly. I had the situation where a relative wasn’t been offered treatment in an acute situation until they said they had health insurance. It was night and day..

15 years ago, DH had an accident whilst in holiday in Southern Spain. The ambulance wouldn't come to the Villa where we were staying (not remote just up a track off the main road). He had to be taken to a clinic by the holiday rep in her car. I had to go with him as the rep said if DH was admitted to hospital then I would be required to care for him overnight - there would be no nurses to do this. I was also told to take our bottled water from the villa as we wouldn't be given anything to eat/drink. When we arrived at the clinic, the rep went to get a wheelchair and a porter arrived with one, opened the car door and wouldn't help DH out until he had seen his EU passport. So I'm afraid I'm not in agreement about the efficiency of the Spanish healthcare system.

@soregums

My experience in Spain was horrendous. I was told I must have slept funny as I had horrendous shoulder pain and symptoms of ruptured ectopic. They refused to examine me, literally laughed at me for being dramatic and told me to take paracetamol. Fortunately I followed my gut, went straight to the airport and got next flight home. Went straight to NHS hospital where I was examined and scanned then taken straight to surgery where my Fallopian tube was removed as I was correct, I was having a ruptured ectopic. The doctor said I would literally be dead with 24 hours if I'd stayed in Spain. They drained almost a litre of blood that I'd already bled out due to the internal bleeding.

Mine was awful too. DS fractured his femur and spent 10 hours on a trolley in a filthy A&E corridor. When he finally was seen and taken to be plastered up, I wasn't allowed in the room with him. I could hear him screaming for me from behind locked doors. I couldn't wait to get him home to the NHS.

The health foundation appears not to agree: www.health.org.uk/news-and-comment/charts-and-infographics/taxes-and-health-care-funding-how-does-the-uk-compare.

Health funding in the UK is low compared with most G7 countries and the evidence is that it is relatively efficient.

My OH has been waiting since November to get a prescription for Vitamin D supplement. Just being passed between his GP, oncologist and orthopaedic consultant. All telling him that one of the others needs to raise the prescription. He's had different blood tests for each and different x-rays/scans for each. They simply refuse to communicate with each other so OH has to pass messages between them, not helped with it always being different GPs.

Latest was the GP phoning up with results of latest blood test to say he's Vit D deficient and to ask the oncologist to issue a prescription. My OH referred her to the patient records showing that both the Oncologist and Orthapaedic consultant have both referred him to the GP to do it - she eventually found the notes on the record but still refuses to issue the Vitamin D, but can't explain why. Previously the GP surgery excuses were that they needed their own blood test (which was done) and then they needed their own X-ray (which was done). Now they've run out of excuses but still passing OH from pillar to post.

So because of NHS stupidity, there's been multiple blood tests, multiple x-rays, and multiple GP/consultant appointments, but none of them will actually take the action to actually issue the sodding prescription that they all agree is needed.

Not underfunded, but totally mismanaged

We won’t get a US system as we have a very different attitude towards healthcare.

We will have more and more private companies involved within the NHS unless it’s reformed

Same in France, healthcare from GPs to hospitals to pharmacies to eldercare all a million times better.

[quote Blossomtoes]@Fairyliz, Spain spends 8.9% of GDP on health. The UK spends 7.2%.[/quote]
How much is spent "per patient" in both countries, not as a percentage of GDP?

I lived in Spain for about 3 years and used its healthcare system quite a lot, including for pregnancy and childbirth. I've only been pregnant/given birth once, so I can't do a direct comparison with the UK. I think it can be difficult to judge these things objectively as a foreigner experiencing healthcare in another country (any country). If you live somewhere but aren't completely fluent in the language, for example, it can be difficult to navigate the system, and if you receive one-off treatment on holiday, you don't necessarily get a full picture either.

Overall I found the healthcare fine I guess, to be honest I didn't really find it massively different to the UK one way or another. There were certain details that I remember being different (vaccine schedules for babies, for example), but the boredom of sitting in A&E was pretty similar in both countries for me... The care wasn't always amazing in Spain though. I remember some particularly horrible comments from nurses after childbirth for one thing, and my daughter's father and I kept getting angry letters and phone calls because my daughter needed some medical care after birth and they wanted to charge us €1000s for it, which we didn’t have... (we were legal residents, paid taxes, etc). Maybe I just did healthcare in Spain wrong?

Brexit. The Tories. This is where it's all gone wrong.

@Franklin12

We would not get a US system. Stop being ridiculous. We need to reform the NHS. It’s not fit for purpose.

People who want a US system have no idea how terrible it is.

I twisted my ankle one time hiking (badly) in Colorado.

Ambulance got called out to pick me up.

First word out of their mouth: "do you have insurance"?

Not: "how are you feeling" or "here is a mild painkiller"

Want to make clear:

If I did not have insurance they would have 100% left me there or billed me an insane amount. They only have to take care of you by law if its an emergency.

@Badbadbunny

My OH has been waiting since November to get a prescription for Vitamin D supplement. Just being passed between his GP, oncologist and orthopaedic consultant. All telling him that one of the others needs to raise the prescription. He's had different blood tests for each and different x-rays/scans for each. They simply refuse to communicate with each other so OH has to pass messages between them, not helped with it always being different GPs.

Latest was the GP phoning up with results of latest blood test to say he's Vit D deficient and to ask the oncologist to issue a prescription. My OH referred her to the patient records showing that both the Oncologist and Orthapaedic consultant have both referred him to the GP to do it - she eventually found the notes on the record but still refuses to issue the Vitamin D, but can't explain why. Previously the GP surgery excuses were that they needed their own blood test (which was done) and then they needed their own X-ray (which was done). Now they've run out of excuses but still passing OH from pillar to post.

So because of NHS stupidity, there's been multiple blood tests, multiple x-rays, and multiple GP/consultant appointments, but none of them will actually take the action to actually issue the sodding prescription that they all agree is needed.

Unless it's a very high dose, you can buy Vitamin D in supermarkets or online in the meantime.

@Canhearthemice

Brexit. The Tories. This is where it's all gone wrong.

It went wrong long before Brexit. Blame Cameron and his fucking austerity.

My impression of Spain is that there is a lot less middle management and bureaucratic paperwork there. When it comes to wastefulness the organisations that run the NHS feel slow and unwieldy - it isn’t the clinical staff but the structure and organisation that is inefficient.

I agree, I literally tell strangers to get private cover now.

Wednesday dh was told his breathing problems were anxiety, Thursday I took him to a+e because his goitre is occluding his airway causing stenosis and he’s still in there as it’s an emergency if you can’t breathe…

It’s like a fucking game show “you said Anxiety, our survey said….stenosis” 🙄 but there is no comeback to drs. The gmc isn’t going to reprimand anyone, it becomes a “learning experience”.