Page 5 | To think in the UK, in 2022...

rugbunch · 03/04/2022 12:47

@Spikeyball absolutely

Clavinova · 03/04/2022 12:48

The Danes believe in society- that’s the big difference

So they do - September 2021;

Some migrants in Denmark will now be required to work 37 hours a week in order to receive welfare benefits.

It will be a requirement for those who have been on benefits for three to four years, and who have not reached a certain level of proficiency in Danish.

Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen said the rules were directly aimed at women from "non-Western backgrounds" living on benefits.

Denmark has repeatedly tightened its immigration policies in recent years.

It now has some of the toughest rules in Europe, and has set a target of zero asylum applications.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58484953

Waxonwaxoff0 · 03/04/2022 12:48

[quote bigyellowTpot]@MoonminMummy9 I don't read the daily fail. if you read my post properly it clearly says I know many of these families personally that are on benefits or low incomes and can afford all these things quite easily. I live in a so called deprived area but I have honestly never witnessed any deprevation. The majority of families also seem to own atleast 2 cars which are definitely not old bangers.[/quote]
I don't believe posts like these. No one can afford 2 cars and designer clothes on an income of just benefits. Either you're lying to get people frothing, or they're lying to you about their incomes.

Iwonder08 · 03/04/2022 12:48

A lot of people vote tory because the alternative seems even worse. It is bad now, but current Labour leaders would have done even worse. There are many issues that need addressing, not a lot of them down to any government. The general sense of entertainment is causing a lot of troubles. Why encourage kids to work harder in school if parents truly believe there is no need. That is one of the reasons why second generation immigrants often do well here. Different work ethics they teach they kids..
People also often forget that if you just blindly raise the taxes both rich individuals and big companies will move elsewhere

gogohm · 03/04/2022 12:49

Of course we agree but what is adequate? I have my heating on 2 hours per day, I feel that is adequate (newish house) I have plenty of healthy scratch cook food but no treats, not good for us, haven't bought coffee or ice cream in many weeks, have coffee at home (lidl French roast and cafetière). It's about priorities.

I would say I think people should be able ti buy healthy food to cook at home but treats like takeaways or coffees are not essential. Trips out don't have to cost anything but nobody should be worrying about the cost of heating their home to 18 degrees morning and night or the cost of cooking their food crucially (healthy food often takes more cooking).

I would like to see vouchers for gas/electric/heating oil for all households on benefits or incomes up to circa £30k through the winter months each year but means test the old peoples ones (my parents do not need the help!)

mudgetastic · 03/04/2022 12:50

It's not right / accurate to say that it's older people who would resent paying taxes to enable a fairer society ( it's another example of people falling into the divided society trap whereby false wars are created to obsfucate the real problems )

It's across the board - broadly the haves vs the have nots with a good dollop of "self made man/ I look after myself and my family " attitudes coupled with a crap voting system so that the country is ruled by a party only around 1/3 actually voted for , and with boundary changes it will take even smaller minorities to keep the tories in power

balalake · 03/04/2022 12:51

Express your opinion via the ballot box next month if you have elections in your area.

vixeyann · 03/04/2022 12:52

I don't have faith in any of the current political parties to deal with the issues, we are just on the same carousel year after year and will be until we have political leaders who have worked hard for a living, our sleaze free and accountable and aren't propped up by rich spouses or wealthy family and actually give two shits about the common man/woman.

MrsSkylerWhite · 03/04/2022 12:52

rugbunch

“But social mobility has gone backwards, so why are you assuming it's the same now? “

Oh I don’t disagree with you. I do believe though that it’s no tougher for young, working class families now than it was in the 1960s/70s, in terms of educational opportunities.

Very different story in terms of housing, obviously, which of course impacts every other aspect of life.

shabbalabba · 03/04/2022 12:55

@justonanote

The lowest incomes should be able to -

Have food in at all times and be able to do a shop without fear they haven't got enough -YES

Adequately heat their homes and have as much hot water as they need-YES

Have a enough left over for a few little treats. An ice cream, a coffee out once a week, enough to enjoy a cheap trip out every now and then?*- NOT NECESSARILY NO...

roarfeckingroarr · 03/04/2022 12:57

Well yeah, that would be great. Can the lowest paid in other countries do that? Probably not. The answer is not becoming some sort of communist hell hole.

woodhill · 03/04/2022 12:59

[quote Clavinova]The Danes believe in society- that’s the big difference

So they do - September 2021;

Some migrants in Denmark will now be required to work 37 hours a week in order to receive welfare benefits.

It will be a requirement for those who have been on benefits for three to four years, and who have not reached a certain level of proficiency in Danish.

Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen said the rules were directly aimed at women from "non-Western backgrounds" living on benefits.

Denmark has repeatedly tightened its immigration policies in recent years.

It now has some of the toughest rules in Europe, and has set a target of zero asylum applications.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58484953[/quote]
Sounds sensible tbh

Florenz · 03/04/2022 13:00

I think the onus needs to be on people that are working rather than people that are on benefits. As long as Labour can be branded as the party for people on benefits, a lot of working people will find it difficult to vote for them. The party was founded to represent workers, I don't know at what point it got away from that.

Clavinova · 03/04/2022 13:02

There is ‘a lot’ of very good social housing (Danes only)

Danes only? That's the complete opposite of Labour's 2019 manifesto which pledged to 'level-up' access to benefits and social housing for asylum seekers and migrants.

HRTQueen · 03/04/2022 13:04

We do have a problem of low wages, people stuck on benefits (universal credit of world correctly helps but that is an if) and those who choose to stay on benefits let’s not pretend this is a few people it isn’t but why they do needs to be looked at

I agree Labour has lost its way the party for those they decide are worthy of championing that is no longer the ordinary working person

rugbunch · 03/04/2022 13:05

@MrsSkylerWhite which was my point. What your parents have & how much they can help you will determine your path in life & what education you can access for most. I think uni fees are quite prohibitive now.

liliainterfrutices · 03/04/2022 13:06

I think it’s utter bollocks that current Labour leaders would have done worse. On what evidence? I don’t think for a moment that they’d have funnelled £37 billion to their mates, pretending it was for PPE.

rugbunch · 03/04/2022 13:07

@mudgetastic but there are more older people (population dynamics) & you are more likely to be a have if you're older.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 03/04/2022 13:08

[quote shabbalabba]@justonanote

The lowest incomes should be able to -

Have food in at all times and be able to do a shop without fear they haven't got enough -YES

Adequately heat their homes and have as much hot water as they need-YES

Have a enough left over for a few little treats. An ice cream, a coffee out once a week, enough to enjoy a cheap trip out every now and then?*- NOT NECESSARILY NO...
[/quote]
Yes they should. Everyone deserves more than just paying bills and existing.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 03/04/2022 13:09

@Florenz

I think the onus needs to be on people that are working rather than people that are on benefits. As long as Labour can be branded as the party for people on benefits, a lot of working people will find it difficult to vote for them. The party was founded to represent workers, I don't know at what point it got away from that.

A lot of workers are on benefits too. It's not either/or.

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 03/04/2022 13:09

Well yeah, that would be great. Can the lowest paid in other countries do that? Probably not. The answer is not becoming some sort of communist hell hole.

Ah yes the good old communism trope. This is something I've noticed the right doing more and more recently, spouting off about communism when people are talking about socialism. I can only assume it's because they either don't know the difference or are deliberately trying to spread misinformation about it because they know they have no sound against it.

chisanunian · 03/04/2022 13:11

@rolypolydoly

Shouldn't apply only to the UK

I agree, but you have to start somewhere and this thread is about poverty in the UK specifically.

OfstedOffred · 03/04/2022 13:11

People who think we aren't a rich country have no fucking idea.

We have huge wealth disparity which is totally unacceptable.

But even our very poorest are not poorer than the poorest in countries like much of sub saharan Africa, Asia.

We have far more generous benefits available than in many countries.

mudgetastic · 03/04/2022 13:11

There is more variability in wealth within any specific generation than there is between the generations

We will not defeat the current ideology if we don't come together - so don't alienate older people by stereotyping as you need them in our side as much as younger people

EveningOverRooftops · 03/04/2022 13:12

@the80sweregreat

You need tech these days to do anything , it is an essential ( just my opinion , but it's how we have been programmed and made to accept that everything is about having it because we can't line without it ) if your job hunting you need tech. No way around it. Netflix is cheaper a month than going to the pictures for one night out. I think some people would only be happy if everyone went back to living in caves. Even my parents had the odd take away fish and chips now and again and we were really poor , everyone needs a lift or a treat sometimes.

Indeed.

You need a smartphone or computer of some sort and an internet connection to access benefits even the jobseekers element of UC. If the govt require the internet to access its services then it’s an essential Item in my eyes.

Agree. A Netflix subscription is £7 a month. That’s access to not only Netflix own productions but a rotation of films and Tv shows you can struggle to find on terrestrial TV and pay to watch that too.

There’s online learning platforms too that are free. Openlearn has free course, futurelearn, even learning skills via a YouTube video. There’s many more than just these and I know a lot of people who have used them between jobs to keep busy. Myself included.

It’s a great leveller, the internet and internet access in the same way the BBC originally was with its documentaries, schools and education programmes, GCSE bite size etc and libraries still are. They provide free educational and entertainment resources.

We need to treat it as such.

But I’m a great believer that every human needs some ‘fun’ or ‘play’ alongside their work and adulting.