To think in the UK, in 2022...

[justonanote]

The lowest incomes should be able to -

Have food in at all times and be able to do a shop without fear they haven't got enough

Adequately heat their homes and have as much hot water as they need

Have a enough left over for a few little treats. An ice cream, a coffee out once a week, enough to enjoy a cheap trip out every now and then?

The lowest of incomes.

I despair, I honestly do.

@Fitterbyfifty

I know people who still vote Tory because they are the only party who can manage the country's finances - this after losing billions through Brexit and giving millions to their mates during the pandemic. The mind boggles.

Yeah, and people that say who better to manage the economy than a billionaire ex-banker? U wot? The same banker that helped cause the 2007 banking crisis?

Why do people think Labour is God's messenger to save us from all evils on earth especially after dealing with warmongering Blair and financial fiasco that Brown did? Or is it that Labour voters are more vocal and you don't hear the others because they are not allowed to speak?
All the politicians are as bad as each other.
What we need to see is the policies they stand for at each election. For me the most important one is making sure that women's rights and guarantees to safe spaces for vulnerable women are maintained so that my daughter and her peers don't need to fight for their rights again. I also acknowledge that not everyone will think this way and will vote accordingly.

@DrSbaitso

Some people are more bothered about Labour’s stance on trans issues than the Torie’s grinding people in to the ground. They don’t give a shit about people not being able to afford even the basics. They try to cover up how much of a shit they don’t give by saying Labour doesn’t know what a woman is!

Do you think those issues are completely independent of each other?

Who do you think is most likely to be struggling financially as a single parent in a household with children, with the associated issues of childcare and any medical requirements they have? Or trapped by the financial situation in an abusive relationship because cost of living is so high and they earn less overall than the other kind of people?

Do you have a word for those people? Can you define and recognise them so that you can identify which issues affect them disproportionately and why?

At the moment, Labour doesn't and can't...

Well keep voting Tory then and let's see where this country is in another decade.

I'm disgusted that some people are more concerned about the trans issues, a very small minority who are also vulnerable, than the millions of vulnerable people living in poverty right now in this country which is set to get a lot worse. Which is the bigger issue and risk??

@LookMoreCloselier

I'm disgusted that some people are more concerned about the trans issues, a very small minority who are also vulnerable, than the millions of vulnerable people living in poverty right now in this country which is set to get a lot worse. Which is the bigger issue and risk??

Mumsnet is psychotically obsessed with trans

Education is free for those who have bettered themselves but in a lot of cases aspirations are missing .*

What is there to aspire too though?”

That’s a very depressing comment. Look to immigrants, so many of whom leave their countries in search of an education for their children.
Education does change lives for the better.

@Overthebow

I often do vote Tory as I believe strongly that anyone who can work should, and the state shouldn’t be there to prop up people’s lifestyle choices. But I really think the barriers to work need to be removed, and work needs to pay people decent wages, so I would vote for any party who would sort that out.

This is a massive misconception that everyone poor is on benefits. Most people who are poor in this country do work. Minimum wage is nothing like the cost of living in many places when you factor in housing costs. Then the recent cost of living increases are enough to sink many sensible people's finances.

I am not a massive left winger, and believe in independence from the stare where possible. However, to assume poverty is always self inflicted is very unfair and a gross misrepresentation of individual people's lives.

I know single mums whose husbands have left them high and dry, struggling to make ends meet, who have had no hand in their own poverty other than to marry the wrong guy.

@LookMoreCloselier

I'm disgusted that some people are more concerned about the trans issues, a very small minority who are also vulnerable, than the millions of vulnerable people living in poverty right now in this country which is set to get a lot worse. Which is the bigger issue and risk??

This is why the Tories stoke the "culture wars"

Many people just can't think critically and fall for it

My dad was unemployed under Labour (made redundant) and the benefits system was awful. We got £97 a fortnight for a family of 4. They based the calculations on how many hours my mum worked and didn’t even consider that she was on minimum wage and term time only. Labour talk the good talk about being caring but it’s all bullshit.

That’s a very depressing comment. Look to immigrants, so many of whom leave their countries in search of an education for their children.
Education does change lives for the better.

I'm a 2nd gen immigrant so please go ahead & educate me 😆

@LookMoreCloselier

I'm disgusted that some people are more concerned about the trans issues, a very small minority who are also vulnerable, than the millions of vulnerable people living in poverty right now in this country which is set to get a lot worse. Which is the bigger issue and risk??

Agree.

@bambinajas

This depends on what you mean by thinking critically. It's a matter of timescales.

The logical end point of the labour trans stance IS an erosion of the concessions afforded to women and the recognition of the role they play on society. Having babies is not immediately economically useful, but without having babies and 18 years of care, you do not have a society. The quality of that care dictates the quality of your society.

If you can make it so that a man can access those concessions, simply by declaring that he feels like a woman there is literally no point to having them.

This cost-of-living crisis is pretty much worldwide (definitely europe-wide). All a given political party will be able to do is ease the pain slightly to some extent. Even then it's really a choice of who bears the pain and how much.

The only money that a goverment has to do anything with is the money it takes from its citizens. Whoever is being relieved of that money is going to shout about why that shouldn't be happening to them.

I'm disgusted that some people are more concerned about the trans issues, a very small minority who are also vulnerable, than the millions of vulnerable people living in poverty right now in this country which is set to get a lot worse. Which is the bigger issue and risk??
Same

@BambinaJAS

The UK has 5 of the 10 most deprived areas in Europe.

It is very, very far from being a developed country.

There is too much "belief in British exceptionalism" and not enough "this is the reality so lets improvw it"

Nothing will change in the UK until you get rid of that fantasy of British exceptionalism

Don’t be ridiculous, of course the UK is a developed country. There does not mean there is no poverty here, but having lived in a country without free health care, where schools have no heat and some people have no running water at home the UK is a dream by comparison.

Yanbu

Having babies is not immediately economically useful, but without having babies and 18 years of care, you do not have a society. The quality of that care dictates the quality of your society.

Birth rates have already dropped.

I keep being reminded of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. So many people trapped at basic survival 😔

@dipdye

Yup.

Food, heating.

Basic human rights. Not luxuries.

The mentality behind this kind of thinking really depresses and annoys me.

It's economic outputs that pay for economic inputs.

People sitting around on their arses, conjuring up satisfactory lifestyles in their imagination, rabbiting on about it to other people, and even passing laws to make it happen, none of that causes even a single grain of rice to magic itself into existence.

If what you mean is that there should be a benefits system that should ensure that no-one has an income less than 60% of the median, then say that, I don't have a problem with that. But as a quid pro quo, please accept that there is no law of economics or nature that says the average person is entitled even to enough food to stay alive. (Though obviously it would take an apocalyptic downturn in food supplies for the average person to starve.)

@Nidan2Sandan

Some people are more bothered about Labour’s stance on trans issues than the Torie’s grinding people in to the ground. They don’t give a shit about people not being able to afford even the basics. They try to cover up how much of a shit they don’t give by saying Labour doesn’t know what a woman is!

It's not trans issues, its womens issues. Given 50% of this country are women those issues are important.

If you dont believe in safe spaces for women, fine, vote labour. Your choice.

I'd prefer to know that a woman, who has nowhere to go after being raped can safely access a no penis zone. Labour cant even describe what a woman is!

Yes it depends if you view it as a trans issue or women’s rights issue. If the latter it jumps from a tiny percentage to half.

You're right - but I actually think the lowest income CAN afford those things. But people don't stop around, and people don't prioritise. THAT'S the problem.

I have friends who complain about not being able to afford the new heating bills, but then they have expensive phone contracts, Prime, Netflix etc. And Sky!!

@justonanote When you say the lowest of incomes I'm assuming you mean for a full time position on full time hours....

@LindaEllen

You're right - but I actually think the lowest income CAN afford those things. But people don't stop around, and people don't prioritise. THAT'S the problem.

I have friends who complain about not being able to afford the new heating bills, but then they have expensive phone contracts, Prime, Netflix etc. And Sky!!

Ah, here we go with the Sky TV.

I myself am on a very low income and live in what is called a deprived area with a high amount of people on benefits or on very low income children on free school meals etc, But I am seeing things differently as I'm surprised at how much these people on benefits or on low incomes can afford. No shortage of holidays abroad, days out, concert tickets and the latest gadgets, latest phones on £60 per month contracts including their children having them too. kids dressed in the latest designer gear. Of course they also all use the food banks too. I know many of these parents personally so I know they genuinely afford these things. So all is not as bad as its made out to be in many cases.

And Sky!!

How expensive do you think Sky is?

Agree it’s utterly shameful

But many people have been living like this for years they were just ignored now it’s many more people this can’t be ignored