To think in the UK, in 2022...

[justonanote]

The lowest incomes should be able to -

Have food in at all times and be able to do a shop without fear they haven't got enough

Adequately heat their homes and have as much hot water as they need

Have a enough left over for a few little treats. An ice cream, a coffee out once a week, enough to enjoy a cheap trip out every now and then?

The lowest of incomes.

I despair, I honestly do.

Doesnt really matter if someone is deserving poor or undeserving poor. A whole bunch of malnourished, cold people is bad for society.

@VodselForDinner -- what are you going to do about it?

I'm not going to march in the streets, if that's what PP meant.

I can/will donate money to foodbank.
I tried volunteering for foodbank, but they only wanted people to shake buckets & fundraise -- I already fundraise for another charity & I hate shaking buckets.

Am willing to hear about other tangible actions, if anyone has a list (not just rioting, moaning or campaigning)

are there charities that take action to improve home insulation?

I’d like to see why people keep justifying voting for them when many are struggling to make ends meet.

I think some vote Tory because even though they don't currently have these things they aspire to be earning more or have a BTL etc so they think in some way they will be harming their future selfs. They don't realise that voting Tories makes their aspirations less likely to come true & harder for themselves.

@hattie43 but the pot is big enough. It's closer to a billion odd that goes unclaimed every single year!

The pot isn't big enough to support more and more who aren't adding to it .

But more & more people aren't not working & living on benefits unless you are looking at pensioners? more & more working people are getting pulled into poverty. There will also be some that can't work, or manage money but they are a minority.

Education is free for those who have bettered themselves but in a lot of cases aspirations are missing .

What is there to aspire too though?

I know people who still vote Tory because they are the only party who can manage the country's finances - this after losing billions through Brexit and giving millions to their mates during the pandemic. The mind boggles.

@VodselForDinner

I don’t think anyone is going to disagree with you.

So now, what are you going to do about it?

Stop voting Conservative. There's a bloody great start.

Britain is a place of mass delusion - the idea you can have low tax, and really good welfare is just not possible. And its been rejected over and over again by voters, who will go for low tax over decent public services time after time.

Instead people are talking about food banks (wtf this is disgraceful that people even need the things) and what sort of sacrifices they can make. Or complaining that there are no benefit increases - who expects benefit increases under the Tory party, its literally the thing they despise the most.

This cycle repeats over and over again in the UK. We are just going back to a time when class matters, property matters, and all that Blairite stuff about equality of opportunity is over.

There are millions of deluded people who in the 1990s though they had become middle class on the basis of their income alone. Well they are finding out otherwise.

Never, ever put your fate and wellbeing in the hands of a politician. They will never deliver it- and in Britain, expecting the state to improve the quality of your life is totally deluded.

And the middle incomes too! Everyone we know is firmly and outspokenly Conservative but DH and I both voted Labour last time. DH is not into politics and is a bit of a sheep but I walked past his voting booth and saw him deliberate then tick Labour and I was proud of him for coming to his own conclusion. I do believe in safe space for women but I believe much more in all women and men and children being warm and having enough food.

The minimum wage is not enough to survive on and gets propped up by benefits. That doesn’t make sense.

But it feels like the worst kind of turkeys voting for Christmas when people who are have most to lose think the Tories are on their side.

I hate what this country is at the moment.

Well yes people who are working shouldn't be living in poverty. Work should pay, that's the whole idea. But like a pp said the UK never recovered from the 2008 recession. Not sure what the Tories are going to do about low pay now that they can't blame EU immigration.

Some people are more bothered about Labour’s stance on trans issues than the Torie’s grinding people in to the ground. They don’t give a shit about people not being able to afford even the basics. They try to cover up how much of a shit they don’t give by saying Labour doesn’t know what a woman is!

Do you think those issues are completely independent of each other?

Who do you think is most likely to be struggling financially as a single parent in a household with children, with the associated issues of childcare and any medical requirements they have? Or trapped by the financial situation in an abusive relationship because cost of living is so high and they earn less overall than the other kind of people?

Do you have a word for those people? Can you define and recognise them so that you can identify which issues affect them disproportionately and why?

At the moment, Labour doesn't and can't...

@LexMitior

Britain is a place of mass delusion - the idea you can have low tax, and really good welfare is just not possible. And its been rejected over and over again by voters, who will go for low tax over decent public services time after time.

Instead people are talking about food banks (wtf this is disgraceful that people even need the things) and what sort of sacrifices they can make. Or complaining that there are no benefit increases - who expects benefit increases under the Tory party, its literally the thing they despise the most.

This cycle repeats over and over again in the UK. We are just going back to a time when class matters, property matters, and all that Blairite stuff about equality of opportunity is over.

There are millions of deluded people who in the 1990s though they had become middle class on the basis of their income alone. Well they are finding out otherwise.

Never, ever put your fate and wellbeing in the hands of a politician. They will never deliver it- and in Britain, expecting the state to improve the quality of your life is totally deluded.

This

@justonanote

The lowest incomes should be able to -

Have food in at all times and be able to do a shop without fear they haven't got enough

Adequately heat their homes and have as much hot water as they need

Have a enough left over for a few little treats. An ice cream, a coffee out once a week, enough to enjoy a cheap trip out every now and then?

The lowest of incomes.

I despair, I honestly do.

What do you mean by lowest of incomes?

Have a enough left over for a few little treats. An ice cream, a coffee out once a week, enough to enjoy a cheap trip out every now and then? all these are nice to haves. I agree no one should be cold or hungry but ice cream and coffee out are not things I expect to be subsided by taxes. Taxes are going up as it is without have to also cover starbucks.

@Forshorttheycallmecomp

The minimum wage is not enough to survive on and gets propped up by benefits. That doesn’t make sense.

But it feels like the worst kind of turkeys voting for Christmas when people who are have most to lose think the Tories are on their side.

I hate what this country is at the moment.

It absolutely makes sense if you want sell loans and other finance to those who want things they can't afford. Its not just MW, its a collective madness about what security looks like in financial terms.

I see people who to my mind really poor, shit poor, driving cars which are £££. The giveaway - clothes which look like rags, literal cheap tracksuits, cheap trainers, and you can see, absolutely see the disparity.

That's modern Britain, driving a car on finance, wearing a cheap tracksuit. Good business for those who like a nice car and nice clothes and don't need any debt.

Sorry, I mean a financed car which is hundreds a month - but the point stands. These people are not rich but their car suggests so. Its kind of massive cognitive dissonance where they've made it by renting a car that is £60k. Much like people "buying" houses with a 100 per cent mortgage. It will end in a similar way, similar people affected.

@LexMitior do you not think people buy cars on finance because it's often cheaper short term?

Much like people "buying" houses with a 100 per cent mortgage. It will end in a similar way, similar people affected.

And tbf many who did this in the past made serous money.

It's not trans issues, its womens issues. Given 50% of this country are women those issues are important

I agree. I won't be able to vote labour until they come to grips with reality.

Some people are more bothered about Labour’s stance on trans issues than the Torie’s grinding people in to the ground. They don’t give a shit about people not being able to afford even the basics. They try to cover up how much of a shit they don’t give by saying Labour doesn’t know what a woman is!

Labour's stance is impacting 51% of the population and is having a devastating effect on gay and lesbian children in particular. If they can't define 'woman' they can't be trusted to run the country.

The situation we find ourselves in is a global issue. The world stopped working for two years. Governments paid out vast sums of money which of course will have to be paid back. None of that can be blamed on the Tories.

Many of us warned that lockdowns would have a devastating effect. I predict the energy crisis is just the beginning.

The idea that renting a car when everything about you otherwise indicates you have a poor income is a good way to get yourself into real trouble as your income declines as they are going to in the current situation.

Comfortable people do not need finance but they do not need it - a lot of people with aspirations have indulged in it, and it is just coming back to bite them as their incomes start to decline. We are at the start of this.

@Nidan2Sandan

Some people are more bothered about Labour’s stance on trans issues than the Torie’s grinding people in to the ground. They don’t give a shit about people not being able to afford even the basics. They try to cover up how much of a shit they don’t give by saying Labour doesn’t know what a woman is!

It's not trans issues, its womens issues. Given 50% of this country are women those issues are important.

If you dont believe in safe spaces for women, fine, vote labour. Your choice.

I'd prefer to know that a woman, who has nowhere to go after being raped can safely access a no penis zone. Labour cant even describe what a woman is!

The thing is I'd quite like that same woman not to starve, or freeze, be able to work and afford childcare for her children, not have to financially rely on her husband because childcare is prohibitively expensive. Not be worrying about how to feed her kids.

What's more important in the short term?

Stop going on about the Labour Party - Britain doesn't vote labour unless the country is seriously on its arse and even then we seem to like having a beating for a few years before it happens. It happens over and over again - Labour won't save you from this mess.

@Nidan2Sandan

Some people are more bothered about Labour’s stance on trans issues than the Torie’s grinding people in to the ground. They don’t give a shit about people not being able to afford even the basics. They try to cover up how much of a shit they don’t give by saying Labour doesn’t know what a woman is!

It's not trans issues, its womens issues. Given 50% of this country are women those issues are important.

If you dont believe in safe spaces for women, fine, vote labour. Your choice.

I'd prefer to know that a woman, who has nowhere to go after being raped can safely access a no penis zone. Labour cant even describe what a woman is!

I agree and this is why I cannot vote Labour. If Labour cannot even guarantee basic safety for vulnerable women (the most downtrodden in society) how can I expect Labour to care about others struggling in society. Don't know who I will vote for but definitely not for any party who cannot even define who a woman is. There is no reason why people should take over women's spaces. I'm all for building new spaces for everyone but not for others to infringe rights of women.

I used to be a single mum on income support.

I was poor but always have food and fuel.

I think I had £100 per week (housing was paid). 20 years ago this was fine.

Bit I didn't buy ice creams, ever go to cafes or away on trips.

In the short term I do t think it's a problem to go without especially with a young baby who doesn't know any different.

But the problem is with long term poverty. Never having any treats after years must be soul destroying.

@rugbunch

I’d like to see why people keep justifying voting for them when many are struggling to make ends meet.

I think some vote Tory because even though they don't currently have these things they aspire to be earning more or have a BTL etc so they think in some way they will be harming their future selfs. They don't realise that voting Tories makes their aspirations less likely to come true & harder for themselves.

I agree. These people are delusional because the tories despise people with one BTL. They've set the system up so it's only viable if you have multiple BTLs (ie, their cronies, not the average an on the street)