To think rent is so bloody unfair

[Tar19891]

My rent is 800 per month. A mortgage on the same value flat would be 450 per month. Not in London obviously. It’s not fair is it?

@HiJenny35

I'm not sure why some renters act so hard done by. I've rented because it's been great, I can pick where I want to live, move to different parts regularly and with my changing finances, I can rely on someone else to fix things that break, don't have to worry about DIY or decorating, no stamp duty. No I haven't got an asset going forward but I've been careful to rent less than I can afford and saved plenty. If I came into some money I'd happily become a landlord.

You forget how miserable renting used to be.

You would have to pay £500+ in fees to the letting agents, plus deposit and first months rent just to move. You essentially needed many thousands of £££ which represents a huge barrier for most.

And I have seen cases of landlords asking for guarantors to boot (even though not necessary due to income levels).

At a certain point you really do have to tell these people to get stuffed. Enough with the poor behavior and exploitative nature of the interactions.

Did you not see the absolute wailing coming from agents and landlords about the tenant fees ban?

These people are totally delusional.

The UK is very much a rentier economy when it comes to renting. There are far too many transaction costs, and everybody in the chain tries to extract more and more money from the renter.

What people don't see is that this kind of behavior causes material economic damage to the country because it makes it much harder for people to move from Point A to Point B in the UK for jobs. It is simply too expensive for many so you end up with labour shortages in key tourist areas, and entrenched poverty in other areas.

I speak on behalf of everyone here, @Silverswirl, when I say that you’re speaking a load of shit.

I’ll stop eating avocados, never have the heating on, never drive anywhere, use bath water x 3 times, and I’ll be able to buy a flat next week. Or maybe I can become a landlord and laugh at the plebs who’ll never be able to buy because they couldn’t stop eating avocados. Such fun!

@vivainsomnia

I believe it’s spot on. If the average landlord had an ounce of creativity or wherewithal in their soul when it comes to investment, they …. wouldn’t be a landlord Ha you mean tou forgot to specify you're the Queen of investments! You must be doing very well then. Maybe you could share your wealth with those who are struggling!

As I mentioned on the thread, yesterday I made very substantial gift aid contributions because I’d rather give my money directly to where it can be used effectively than giving it to the exchequer to line the pockets of landlord parasites.

@Blossomtoes

but would have to pay lots of capital gains tax, so I doubt it makes sense

In which case you must have made a lot of capital gains.

Yup. I have owned the property for 25 years.

@Tar19891

Plus the landlord is building equity. Come on, we’re all adults as you say. Just admit to profiting off the situation

Of course they want some profit!!! They don’t go through all the hassle for fun, do they? 🤣🤣

@Cameleongirl “@SwanBuster. You really do have a thing about landlords, don’t you”

What on earth makes you think that? 😂

Whenever I meet landlords, I don’t feel envy - I feel pity. Their vacuous, empty mind is truly sad to observe
All, every single one of them? Never bother to even hear their circumstances? They are all thick and empty minded? Do you think that makes you intellectually superior?

You sound extremely judgemental and intolerant. Not a sign of intelligence!

@Porcupineintherough

So why is it morally wrong to make a profit from providing housing but not wrong for making a profit out of all the other things people need to live: food, water, energy? It doesnt make sense.

What does make sense is regulation to balance the needs of both tenant and landlord, and to protect the interests of both. And proper enforcement of existing legislation.

Well there are laws to stop supermarkets becoming monopolies and industries forming cartels. Energy and water providers do have direct government involvement..

Who regulates the price landlords charge?

@vivainsomnia

I'm not sure why some renters act so hard done by Because they believe their landlord don't deserve what they have whilst they are being hard done by society and it's easier to blame those who so have it.

Because they resent buying a house for someone else. It’s not that difficult to get your head round, is it?

@Tar19891of course landlords profit from the situation, why on earth would they bother if not? They take on financial risk, the pain in the ass that tenants can be and all costs involved. Who in their right mind would do that for no profit??

@vivainsomnia

Whenever I meet landlords, I don’t feel envy - I feel pity. Their vacuous, empty mind is truly sad to observe All, every single one of them? Never bother to even hear their circumstances? They are all thick and empty minded? Do you think that makes you intellectually superior?

You sound extremely judgemental and intolerant. Not a sign of intelligence!

Every single one of them. Every last one. Even the ‘accidental’ ones. Thicker than the thickest pig shit.

I’m actually the last judgemental person you could possibly meet otherwise. I store all my ire up for the parasites who speculate in shelter because they are too dumb to spot the million other less corrosive ways to allocate capital.

@lightisnotwhite the market, same as with food. The reason that there are rules about supermarkets not becoming monopolies is so that this aspect of market regulation works. As lots of people /companies are private landlords, there is no monopoly.

That's not to say that the market can't be or shouldnt be regulated in other ways. The devotion to a market economy has pros and cons.

@Blossomtoes

The entire point so many of us are making *@Cameleongirl*, is that providing homes shouldn’t be a business. There are plenty of ways to invest your money with a decent return without being a landlord, most of them a lot less hassle by the sound of it. It’s pure greed.

But why shouldn’t it be a business? Students, for example, don’t want to buy a house, they want to live close to their university for a few years then move on. As do many people. I rented for years as I moved alot for work, it made sense if I was only staying somewhere for a couple of years. I was lucky in that I only had one annoying landlord who didn’t fix things.

It's not fair having to pay more on rent then you would in a mortgage( plus buildings insurance and repairs) it's so hard to get on the property ladder when you are paying high rents.
Of course being a landlord isn't stress free but clearly there is financial advantage otherwise no one would do it.
My pet peeve ( as parent of uni student) are landlords of student housing - charging rent of £2500 a month for a run down 3 bed semi where living and dining rooms are converted into extra bedrooms, zero maintenance and poor response whenever there is an issue, its definitely a licence to print money! A well maintained house of similar size would probably net half the rent and need to be properly maintained and in a lot better condition.

lightisnotwhite Well there are laws to stop supermarkets becoming monopolies and industries forming cartels.
Energy and water providers do have direct government involvement..

This is a very good question. What you are describing is the regulation of competition. Its notoriously weak in the UK. There are very few competitors in the UK in the supermarket market, and many supermarkets have driven small players out of the market. They behave like monopolies in that they set the prices farmers, etc sell their goods to them in this country. e.g. dairy, eggs, etc..

Add to that the relatively poor regulation of planning. Government is in charge of planning and supermarkets or their subsidiaries buy up land and sit on it and wait for planning permission, a bit like the large housebuilders do. There are many obstacles to entering the market, not least the contacts necessary to be able to confidently landbank. Then theres retail parks. These are big money makers for local authorities, but they're really bad for the environment and often don't have any public transport links.

Who regulates the price landlords charge?

First of all the market and secondly the state. There is so much state regulation in the UK on the rental sector that it adds significantly to costs. It is naiave in the extreme to assume that George Osborne's massive increase of the burden on tax on landlords would not lead to a reduction in supply.

I have a student HMO in a city centre and I spend around 4k per year on regulatory costs and the ever changing requirements alone. I have to supply 11 different safety certificates/licenses. 20 years ago all that was required was a gas safety certificate. Those who use letting agents will also have to pay for the agent to attend each and every one of those inspections.

But anyway, in most successful cities anywhere in the world, accommodation is breathtakingly expensive. That is surely one of the marks of a successful city. The problem in the UK is more nuanced in that poor public transport infrastructure exacerbates the problem because people cannot effectively commute to cities in many cases.

But why shouldn’t it be a business?

Because a roof over your head is a very basic and fundamental human need. And yes so are water, heat and light. None of them should be businesses and they weren’t until Thatcher skewed the balance of our society.

I was very glad of renting when I did, no way could i have afforded buying in zone 1 London and wanted to spend a year or two in Madrid, which I did.

I am grateful to have had the opportunity to live places I didn’t want and couldn’t buy!

Do love the invective coming from SwanBuster.

"thicker than the thickest pig shit"

Yesterday afternoon I spent a vile hour clearing the blocked sewer from my let house.
Yes I could have invoked the tenancy agreement and asked the tenants to pay someone to clear the blockage but I knew that they didn't have the money.
No I don't charge excessive rents.
No they are not spongers on society, they are foreign students.
I provide a vital service for the community, the university is the second biggest employer in my city.

Being a landlord is not all fun and can be utterly disgusting. Some tenants have little concept of personal hygeine.

As for insurance, a student left a joss stick burning, to make his room smell nice. This burnt the roof off my house. At a cost of £47000. As he was destitute, another foreigner, I provided accommodation for him for the remainder of his course.

Because they resent buying a house for someone else. It’s not that difficult to get your head round, is it?
My tenants are not paying for my house. I don't make a profit from the income they pay. Due to taxation. The benefit is in the growth which I would still get, tenant or not.

Save your hate landlords who buy to let, own maximum properties and only care about profit.

Not those that offer you a roof over your head, and make no or little money from it and ensure the house is well kept, repairs done promptly and yet get such hard press because some idiots are so quick to generalise.

Ultimately, my tenants are happy ad tell me I'm a great landlord and that means so much to me than strangers with an axe to grind!

@Runnerduck34

It's not fair having to pay more on rent then you would in a mortgage( plus buildings insurance and repairs) it's so hard to get on the property ladder when you are paying high rents. Of course being a landlord isn't stress free but clearly there is financial advantage otherwise no one would do it. My pet peeve ( as parent of uni student) are landlords of student housing - charging rent of £2500 a month for a run down 3 bed semi where living and dining rooms are converted into extra bedrooms, zero maintenance and poor response whenever there is an issue, its definitely a licence to print money! A well maintained house of similar size would probably net half the rent and need to be properly maintained and in a lot better condition.

You will indeed find it hard/impossible to save up a deposit for a flat/house while you are paying in a flat/house. I despair at people leaving university/home wanting to rent a whole flat! I saved up my deposit by years of living in flat shares and bedsits. It wasn't great - but it is now.

The benefit is in the growth which I would still get, tenant or not

Houses deteriorate if they’re not lived in. But of course you know that.

Whenever I meet landlords, I don’t feel envy - I feel pity. Their vacuous, empty mind is truly sad to observe

Maybe, but they own properties and you don’t.

Because a roof over your head is a very basic and fundamental human need
But tenants do expect the service as a customer. They expect safety, prompt repairs, comfort, security, privacy, their deposit protected.That's beyond basic roof over your head. That's expecting a service.

Absolutely right when you pay for a service, but you can't expect then not to have to deal with a business. You can't have your cake and eat it.

@Tar19891

Plus the landlord is building equity. Come on, we’re all adults as you say. Just admit to profiting off the situation

Do you expect the Landlord to rent to you for no profit?

The Landlord is the one exposed to risk here. You have no risk or exposure and could walk away at any point, even without paying. Your LL could find the interest rate on his mortgage go through the roof, or property prices could crash, like in 1989.

I'm not a LL by the way. I'd never do it after watching one too many episodes of those property programmes where LL get their places trashed and no payment for months on end.

In any case, your £450pm, is based on your age, because if you're 30, you could take a mortgage over 40 years. A 50 year old would have to take a mortgage over a max of 20 years, meaning the monthly payment would be so much more.

Why don't you get a loan for £15,000 and buy a flat?