To think rent is so bloody unfair

[Tar19891]

My rent is 800 per month. A mortgage on the same value flat would be 450 per month. Not in London obviously. It’s not fair is it?

All that will happen if rent craps are introduced is that small private landlords will sell up to large corporations who will run properties into the ground, safe in the knowledge that a company with limited liability can be far more evasive of their responsibilities as a landlord than an individual.

And many of these companies will of course be owned by the already wealthy. Or MP's spouses/relatives.

There's this thing called "capitalism" which you may have heard of. Opposite to communism. Under capitalist philosophy, assets can be owned by people who don't need the immediate use of those assets (land, buildings etc) and other people who don't have such assets and have need of them can pay for them.

Other social structures are available eg aforementioned communism. But to be intellectually coherent you can't be against people owning assets and charging you for the use of them and also expecting to be allowed to own your own personal property without it being forcibly siezed snd redistributed by the state to those who have less than you. If you like owning things then you need to be ok with there being other people who own things and paying for the use of them if needed. If you want to overthrow the establishment of capitalism and create a new communist utopia where all assets are owned by The People then by all means do feel free to campaign and work towards that. It will happen if enough people think it is a good idea.

YABU to want the benefits of a communist utopia without understanding or caring about the wider ramifications of that.

One thing that needs to happen is the provision of more good quality (but not necessarily fancy) low cost housing by council's or housing associations. Then short-term private rental could be a choice people make for a whole range of reasons, not just a necessity.

Then you get bashed on here for doing that. Tell you what. Fuck off. Everything I’ve got I’ve earned from a shit background and no/ very little help. If I am lucky enough to one day be able to buy another very small flat to rent out then I will do. And charge the going rate.
As is your right. Just as it’s our right on Mumsnet to call landlording a shit’s trick.

@Porcupineintherough

So why is it morally wrong to make a profit from providing housing but not wrong for making a profit out of all the other things people need to live: food, water, energy? It doesnt make sense.

What does make sense is regulation to balance the needs of both tenant and landlord, and to protect the interests of both. And proper enforcement of existing legislation.

Landlords aren't the issue. Most of us will need to rent at some point in our lives, so nobody is saying you can't profit.

It is the fact that rent is way too high. This is less to do with individuals with a second home they let, and more to do with those with huge property portfolios, including those offshore.

If landlords could at least provide a decent standard of housing, even renters would complain a lot less. In London, the amount you pay for a horrid dated property with no windows or outdoor space is terrible. And most people aren't able to move at the drop of a hat.

so get on the property ladder then.

paying rent yet not owning anything to show for it is the major reason people buy.
lots of good ideas on how to save 5K a year.

If you're homeless, just buy a house!!

@Mellowyellow222

I think there is a lot of emotion on this thread. Individual buy to let landlords aren’t the problem. And you can’t expect people to not make money out of housing. That is just daft.

What is required is a mature discussion about the housing market. Government intervention is required to ensure there is good quality, affordable housing available. Blaming individuals who’d are acting within the law to buy and rent our housing isn’t rational. This is a feature of just about every housing market globally.

This is a very wise post! ? And will be ignored )

@stuntbubbles

Then you get bashed on here for doing that. Tell you what. Fuck off. Everything I’ve got I’ve earned from a shit background and no/ very little help. If I am lucky enough to one day be able to buy another very small flat to rent out then I will do. And charge the going rate. As is your right. Just as it’s our right on Mumsnet to call landlording a shit’s trick.

Although let's not forget on Mumsnet you're thoroughly disapproved of if you wash your bedsheets in with the tea towels! Most of us just have to come to terms with being Mumsnet pariahs. It's a hard and lonely life

All that will happen if rent craps are introduced ...

They already exist and are widely available throughout certain parts of Wigan and Bolton.

[quote Silverswirl]@lightisnotwhite but playing devils advocate - why should it be obvious in 2022? Affordable housing has never been available to everyone in any decade so why now?
And how do you make that happen? Who pays for that? And why should they?[/quote]
It was available 1945 to 1980. Post war there was a massive social housing building programme. It even had a slogan “Homes fit for heroes to live in”. Lots of slum clearance. Then Thatcher bribed council tenants to vote Tory with right to buy and here we are.

@Headabovetheparakeet

The landlords on this thread seem to be bending over backwards to convince everyone how hard they've got it.

Have you thought about selling your BTLs? I'm sure a first time buyer would love to take it off your hands. That's if they've managed to save anything while they've paid off someone else's mortgage for years.

My property isn't a buy to let. I lived in it and moved in with DP. It'a my safety net.

It is damned hard work renting out a property. I usually make a profit on it but not always. This year I've made a loss and next year I will too.

I have considered selling it but would have to pay lots of capital gains tax, so I doubt it makes sense.

but would have to pay lots of capital gains tax, so I doubt it makes sense

In which case you must have made a lot of capital gains.

.

Stop lying. We all know that there is still a 20% relief on mortgage interest costs even for higher rate tax payers. No one is paying 40%
Haha, I wish I was lying! I get 20% relief on my earned income through my business. I pay 40% tax on my rental income, but of course, you know better!

But amazingly, it’s possible to be able to afford to have more than one home and be a landlord, and simply not do it! Not once have I accidentally landlorded
And that's your choice. I tried to sell my property when I moved with my oh. I got Al.osr ripped off. It's a really through one of the potential buyer survey I got an idea of rental options. He wanted to buy and rent to his daughter!

My tenants are thankful. They couldn't afford to buy a similar property in the area. Thy get the benefits of renting. They are not resentful that I'm a landlord and they don't own yet. They will probably do soon and I'm glad they got the benefit of the house before they were able to.

@Jobseeker19

I have yet to meet a landlord who pays insurance.

Landlords insure the building structure and any furniture equipment and fittings (kitchen, white goods, bathroom etc) that belong to them and are used by the tenant.

Those insurances premiums cost money.

I don't know anyone who has been able to buy their first property in the last 10-15 years without having help from family or from inheritance
And I know plenty. Most. Recently a couple in their 40s moved in our close. Love detached home with large garden. Much nicer home than our semi! How did they do it? Both started in lower paying jobs and went up the ladder. They rented for years until they had enough to buy a flat. Then move to cheaper area to afford a small house. This meant commuting long hours. They had a cheap wedding and oy had their first child at 38. She went back to work full time after 6 months. 2 years later, they bought the house. They won't have more children. Hey jad no help, neither parents could afford to help them.

I too never stopped working FT, went back when both my kids were 6 and 4 months. At the start, we could hardly break-even due to childcare costs. I didn't start to feel comfortable until both started secondary school.

Choices do have a lot to do with it. If you are going to have children, 3 or more, before owning and staying at home until they start school and then only PT, of course you are going to struggle more.

For those who have children first, they then inevitably want the garden and a bedroom each so need to save a lot more to become owners than if they started with a one bedroom flat.

If landlords could at least provide a decent standard of housing, even renters would complain a lot less
Most do. We only hear about bad stories, focus on London, but everywhere the majority are happy. I rented 5 properties before I owned by own and had a very good experience each time. I have had three lots of tenants. One okish except at the end, one very bad, one, currently, excellent. Overall, it's worked very well on both sides.

@stuntbubbles

Then you get bashed on here for doing that. Tell you what. Fuck off. Everything I’ve got I’ve earned from a shit background and no/ very little help. If I am lucky enough to one day be able to buy another very small flat to rent out then I will do. And charge the going rate. As is your right. Just as it’s our right on Mumsnet to call landlording a shit’s trick.

I love this thread - It’s so easy to wind up landlords - they are the most intellectually challenged members of society.

Keep enjoying fixing boilers and moaning about workday tenants. The rest of us with capital will continue enjoying the dividends from investing inequities in the productive economy.

• typos - ‘workshy tenants’ and ‘in equities’

I'm not sure why some renters act so hard done by. I've rented because it's been great, I can pick where I want to live, move to different parts regularly and with my changing finances, I can rely on someone else to fix things that break, don't have to worry about DIY or decorating, no stamp duty. No I haven't got an asset going forward but I've been careful to rent less than I can afford and saved plenty. If I came into some money I'd happily become a landlord.

I love this thread - It’s so easy to wind up landlords - they are the most intellectually challenged members of society
And making such pathetic generalisation isn't?

@vivainsomnia

I love this thread - It’s so easy to wind up landlords - they are the most intellectually challenged members of society And making such pathetic generalisation isn't?

Isn’t what? Intellectually challenged?

No - I believe it’s spot on. If the average landlord had an ounce of creativity or wherewithal in their soul when it comes to investment, they …. wouldn’t be a landlord.

I'm not sure why some renters act so hard done by
Because they believe their landlord don't deserve what they have whilst they are being hard done by society and it's easier to blame those who so have it.

I believe it’s spot on. If the average landlord had an ounce of creativity or wherewithal in their soul when it comes to investment, they …. wouldn’t be a landlord
Ha you mean tou forgot to specify you're the Queen of investments! You must be doing very well then. Maybe you could share your wealth with those who are struggling!

@vivainsomnia

I'm not sure why some renters act so hard done by Because they believe their landlord don't deserve what they have whilst they are being hard done by society and it's easier to blame those who so have it.

Whenever I meet landlords, I don’t feel envy - I feel pity. Their vacuous, empty mind is truly sad to observe.