To think rent is so bloody unfair

[Tar19891]

My rent is 800 per month. A mortgage on the same value flat would be 450 per month. Not in London obviously. It’s not fair is it?

And when I say you I’m using that term figuratively I appreciate that none of it may be relevant to your individual circumstances, but it might work for somebody else or at least start leading them down a path that would work for them in the long-term.

@Jobseeker19

I have yet to meet a landlord who pays insurance.

Hi there!

@BambinaJAS

Your house likely appreciated in value by £30,000 which is enough to pay for that boiler 25 times over.

If you can find me a plumber who's happy to wait to be paid when I sell the house - in six or seven years, say - I'll be happy to use them.

Selling off social housing in the 80s and not replacing it created a problem that we still haven't solved.

Planning permission in my town has created over a thousand new homes in the last five years. How many of them are "affordable"? Just about none. It's not a great town, barely more than a village. Four bed houses are going for 700k plus, up to a million.

Renters are going to closed bids and offering well over market value to get what few properties there are. How are you supposed to pay rent and save for a deposit?

Next time there is an election you can vote in, vote for policies that address your main concerns, it's all we can do to bring about the change we want to see.

@BambinaJAS

But that isn’t the fault of the BTL LL - it’s a policy put in place by the banks to protect their lending (and presumably under government / BoE direction following the subprime disaster).

Don’t hate the player, change the game.

Stop supporting Tory governments, campaign for real change in housing policies.

All this wasted ire against LL is pointless. They don’t believe they are doing anything wrong, and no amount of frothing fury on MN will change their minds. They are doing what they think is right for their family’s future.

And whatever other posters say, I don’t think there are many other investments that can lead to such huge returns. It’s a gamble as house prices can go down, of course, but long term, in places like London and major cities, they tend to rise.

@Tar19891

Plus the landlord is building equity. Come on, we’re all adults as you say. Just admit to profiting off the situation

Why on earth would you think people would do it if they didn't make at least some profit? (And no, I'm not a landlord.)

If it's all that easy and profitable, get yourself a mortgage and buy a flat, surely?

Renting in Britain does seem like a difficult square to circle.

Renting has benefited one family member - that of a relative with a feckless "spouse" (not actually married) who kept losing their job and thus income.

My relative now works, but back then couldn't and thankfully relative was able to get benefits to keep them housed.

Relative is no longer with that person, works full time but spends so much on rent. That feckless individual has ruined relative's life. Makes me mad.

@Bingbangbongbash. Exactly.

I grew up on a council estate without a penny and a system that is geared strongly against the poor being socially mobile. I've been fortunate enough to get on with a good job but have been mostly poor until the last 10 years or so.

I managed to get on the housing ladder, pay off one mortgage and then kept it when we climbed the housing ladder. I could've sold it but what's the point, when it'll go straight to my kids when they're looking to buy? If we sold it, just to buy again in 5-10 years time we'd lose a load to spend more. Why would anyone want to do that?

We've been fortunate with social mobility but somehow we're supposed this is ok as long as you don't accumulate too much and try to help benefit your family.

@Tar19891

If you need deposit, but there is £350 a month difference between rent and mortgage which you can afford, why not take personal loan for the house deposit?

A £450 mortgage is what, £90-100k of borrowing? You can get 5 year fixed currently under 2.5%.
That's £10k for deposit, maybe £2k fees & costs. Or, £250 a month over 5 years.

So for next 5 years, you are paying £100 less than your rent.
In 5 years time it's game on with £350 less than renting - and this miraculous get rich house price increase.

Fwiw, my first house deposit was very similar - I used my student loan and worked a second job for 6 months. House was £109k.

All this moaning at landlords - can we not help the OP with actually finding out how to buy a house.

@Tar19891 If you need deposit, but there is £350 a month difference between rent and mortgage which you can afford, why not take personal loan for the house deposit?

Mortgage lenders won't accept borrowed money as a deposit

@outdooryone - There are ways around taking out a personal loan and using it as a deposit but unfortunately it takes 12 months to recycle the money it can be done though. It also massively depends on what the loan to value is the higher the LTV the less questions asked

I managed to get on the housing ladder, pay off one mortgage and then kept it when we climbed the housing ladder. I could've sold it but what's the point, when it'll go straight to my kids when they're looking to buy?

Won't you be liable for capital gains though?

[quote Nothappyatwork]@outdooryone - There are ways around taking out a personal loan and using it as a deposit but unfortunately it takes 12 months to recycle the money it can be done though. It also massively depends on what the loan to value is the higher the LTV the less questions asked[/quote]
What could possibly go wrong eh with taking a personal loan to get the deposit? 😂 fool proof idea. Don’t worry about the extra debt load - it’s all good!

Why not just put all your expenses on a zero interest credit card, and in an illusory fashion save the deposit up like that? Simple! Just keep surfing the debt! Perfect - I can’t possibly foresee any problems for the future.

And whatever other posters say, I don’t think there are many other investments that can lead to such huge returns

Perhaps historically but I would argue it's a different story today. Same with building equity in general.

Oh please as if this hasnt been done since the beginning of time.

Unfortunately you can’t put all of your expenses on a credit card simply because the banks we want to see some of your monthly expenses coming in and out. A friend may or may not have taken out a personal loan and paid their monthly rent upfront for 12 months with it to allow it to look as though they were saving £750 a month out of there and salary though.

When I bought a house any debt I had reduced how much I could borrow. And obvs the smaller the LTV ratio the higher the interest. I'm not sure it's sensible in the current climate to over leverage yourself.

@swanbuster

My point is - OP thinks it's unfair, and to an extent I agree. But I'm also of the view that I'm where I am today by taking a risk and finding a way. Not moaning on the internet.

There's also a running theme on this thread of 'house prices always rise, and poor tenant doesn't benefit, but nasty landlord does'. Well, prices don't always rise, houses cost a shedload more than the mortgage payment, and the OP is struggling to see the benefit of a managed house to live in. She's only seeing cost, not benefit.

For the record: I've been (reluctant) landlord. I've 'lost' £70k of equity in 2008 when the market collapsed. I've lost even more through divorce finance split. I live in a house now that I nearly own.. But dammnit I'm not rich and have fought for it.

OP, find a way.

@rugbunch

I managed to get on the housing ladder, pay off one mortgage and then kept it when we climbed the housing ladder. I could've sold it but what's the point, when it'll go straight to my kids when they're looking to buy?

Won't you be liable for capital gains though?

Of course but the kids won't. I'm happy to take the hit financially but am trying to lessen the pain for them.

As we spent a long time living there, capital gains will be less than if we'd sold up, put the money in an account paying next to no interest and then helped the kids with a deposit. House prices have risen a lot too so only compounds the cost difference.

Not in good health and so maybe misunderstanding posts but person NotHappy was complaining about "subsidizing" council homes and claiming it's minority when reality is lots of people have unplanned things bad luck. Then same person NotHappy saying she and her children bought homes by being subsidised. Tax credits and child Isa things.

Don't understand. Is that person saying not allowed safe home if have violent domestic violence or illness or disabled child because safe council home "subsidised" but ok to subsidise her children buying home?

Is not minority that bad luck or unplanned circumstances happen to. Its lots of us.

Do "right thing" million times doesn't stop illness or domestic violence or job loss or disabled child.

I think it does need to get to a point though as renters that banks look at how much rent you have paid in time and on full and should use that to consider support to apply for a mortgage, as you just end up in a loop. Trying to save a deposit and they keep putting the rent up.

People saying just get mortgage & it's choice not to. Lots of us do right thing. Study, get job, start savings to buy, then illness happens. Can't get mortgage even though savings for deposit cos no income. Then savings wiped out. People say why shouldn't savings be wiped out if have them but then there's no safety net of safe home when savings gone. Magic miracle to get council now in lots of areas doesn't seem to be on highest need or if it is not enough homes for highest need, and most private landlords don't take benefits.

Doing right thing doesn't mean suddenly everything will be ok. Think opposite sometimes cos my age group lots committed fraud to buy lied about income self certified, some not even working were on benefits. Reality is doing wrong criminal thing is what helped people. I admit I regret not doing same. Lot of us problem was doing what people on here say to do, doing "right thing". Doing criminal thing was reality the better option.

Big sorry to NotHappy for mixing you up with different person. Think was someone else being nasty about council homes. Sorry.

@nosafeguardingadults

Big sorry to NotHappy for mixing you up with different person. Think was someone else being nasty about council homes. Sorry.

I think I was the one being nasty yesterday night?

House prices have risen a lot too so only compounds the cost difference.

won't that make your CGT bill higher?