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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think rent is so bloody unfair

999 replies

Tar19891 · 02/04/2022 20:43

My rent is 800 per month. A mortgage on the same value flat would be 450 per month. Not in London obviously. It’s not fair is it?

OP posts:
vivainsomnia · 03/04/2022 16:02

Houses deteriorate if they’re not lived in. But of course you know that
Maybe my kids would live in it for free!

SwanBuster · 03/04/2022 16:06

@Chestofdraws

Whenever I meet landlords, I don’t feel envy - I feel pity. Their vacuous, empty mind is truly sad to observe

Maybe, but they own properties and you don’t.

No - I own shares worth enough to buy their houses.
SwanBuster · 03/04/2022 16:08

Oh and no debt.

SucculentChalice · 03/04/2022 16:09

@purpleleotard

Do love the invective coming from SwanBuster.

"thicker than the thickest pig shit"

Yesterday afternoon I spent a vile hour clearing the blocked sewer from my let house.
Yes I could have invoked the tenancy agreement and asked the tenants to pay someone to clear the blockage but I knew that they didn't have the money.
No I don't charge excessive rents.
No they are not spongers on society, they are foreign students.
I provide a vital service for the community, the university is the second biggest employer in my city.

Being a landlord is not all fun and can be utterly disgusting. Some tenants have little concept of personal hygeine.

As for insurance, a student left a joss stick burning, to make his room smell nice. This burnt the roof off my house. At a cost of £47000. As he was destitute, another foreigner, I provided accommodation for him for the remainder of his course.

Similar here. I actually love being a landlord. The main challenge is the constantly changing government regime (I'm in Scotland). I don't know why they cannot just have one regulatory regime and stick to it for a few years at least.

But I meet some very interesting people and I am on top of everything - I only have 2 properties but they are HMOs. Ever increasing government regulation is by far the biggest headache. A couple of years ago we had to put in 30 minute fire resistant letterboxes, but they could only be provided by one company approved by the local authority, and they cost £350 each. I wasn't allowed to go and buy the same letterbox cheaper and install it myself.

That is what I mean about the sector not really being an example of the free market. People simply do not realise how much increasing government interference costs. There are far far more safety certificates and licenses required than in Germany, The Netherlands, Switzerland, France, etc..

The idea that students are all going to buy properties for their course or live in halls of residence or social housing is ridiculous. The latter just leads to a lot of child-like adults who have never experienced living in a normal home, paying bills, etc..

That said, having a bunch of 19 - 23 year olds to deal with as a landlord is quite hard work and I put a lot of effort into "training" them from the outset so that they know what to do when moving into a shared flat. They do not know how to register for bills, take meter readings, notify neighbours of parties and stop making noise after a certain time at night, not block sinks or toilets, not lock themselves out, register for council tax exemption, change lightbulbs, switch on the central heating and many appliances, etc particularly when they are just going into second year. They need a huge amount of input and even then I still get phone calls in the middle of the weekend about things I can do nothing about, such as power cuts or road closures!

user3837313202 · 03/04/2022 16:10

Why don't you get a loan for £15,000 and buy a flat?

Do you mean take out a personal loan to act as a mortgage deposit?

If you try that, most mortgage lenders will reject you, and the few that might accept you (if you're, for instance, a very high earner with no other debt) will offer more expensive interest rates.

But for most people they'll just get turned down flat for a mortgage if their deposit is a loan.

vivainsomnia · 03/04/2022 16:12

No - I own shares worth enough to buy their houses
You mean shares in companies that are ripping off customers? Yes, that's such a better cause!

BambinaJAS · 03/04/2022 16:13

And people wonder why the UK is in such an economic mess.

The vapid explanations and the industrial levels of ignorance and lack of critical thinking skills that I have seen from landlords is simply astonishing.

And before you go tell me to "buy a property"

I already have one in my home country, and I am close to the 97th percentile of income in the UK.

Its about understanding that property speculation is destroying the very fabric of the country you are currently residing in (UK).

But you prefer to put your fingers in your ears and go "lalalala".

Nobody is going to fix this for you. That why this is all likely to end badly in the UK.

BambinaJAS · 03/04/2022 16:15

@user3837313202

Why don't you get a loan for £15,000 and buy a flat?

Do you mean take out a personal loan to act as a mortgage deposit?

If you try that, most mortgage lenders will reject you, and the few that might accept you (if you're, for instance, a very high earner with no other debt) will offer more expensive interest rates.

But for most people they'll just get turned down flat for a mortgage if their deposit is a loan.

You are not allowed to do that in the UK

They make that very clear in the loan documents

More landlord ignorance...cannot say I am surprised.

SucculentChalice · 03/04/2022 16:15

@Blossomtoes

The benefit is in the growth which I would still get, tenant or not

Houses deteriorate if they’re not lived in. But of course you know that.

Not necessarily. I have been trying to sell a 2 bedroom house I have in a city which has suffered a lot of redundancies in a particular industry for several years. I made the choice not to rent it out as the rent minus tax minus all the certificates and licenses minus the risk of damage didn't warrant it. I'd also have to pay around 17.5% of the rent on a letting agent because I live too far away to respond to requests for repairs quickly.

I'd like to congratulate the Scottish Government on creating that particular scenario. The tens of thousands of new builds that have sprung up in conjunction with the local recession hasn't been a great example of responsible planning either.

Two other people in the same development rented theirs out and had bad tenants and non-payers and after repairs/redecoration/replacement of certain items, lost a few thousand.

A visit to a 10 year old house every 4 months or so for a weekend to check its in good order and good neighbours doesn't cause deterioration.

SwanBuster · 03/04/2022 16:21

@vivainsomnia

No - I own shares worth enough to buy their houses You mean shares in companies that are ripping off customers? Yes, that's such a better cause!
So every single equity on the stock market is a company ripping people of? I can invest in practically any global instrument of my choice. If I choose to do only ethical investments - I can.

You choose landlordism. Which is far, far more likely to be socially destructive than my diversified bunch of shares.

ShirleyPhallus · 03/04/2022 16:22

A genuine question for those who hate landlords - what is the alternative?

Many many people cannot afford to buy, or do not want to (ie students, overseas visitors, people wanting to live in a city for a year only etc). What’s the alternative then if we don’t have landlords with properties to rent out?

MrsPear · 03/04/2022 16:24

Repairs? Tax? Maintenance ?

No landlord ever does any of those things 🤣 and anyone claiming they do are liars

spuddy56 · 03/04/2022 16:27

We're renters in the south east and devastated by the increase in house prices over the last two years. We save every last penny, don't buy new clothes, don't go out for dinner, drive old cars etc. All while living in a property that the wind blows through and water actually leaks into through the rotten windows. Dont dare complain as there's so few places to go that we could afford despite on what should be OK salaries. If prices were similar to two years ago we would finally be able to buy but they've gone up so much. Its all so shit.

SucculentChalice · 03/04/2022 16:29

SwanBuster So every single equity on the stock market is a company ripping people of? I can invest in practically any global instrument of my choice. If I choose to do only ethical investments - I can

Whenever I meet landlords, I don’t feel envy - I feel pity. Their vacuous, empty mind is truly sad to observe

What are your shares held in? Narcissism Limited Holdings plc?

Perhaps those you feel so superior to are simply hedging/risk spreading.

If you use any of the tax advantages provided by a personal pension for those investments, you are almost certainly involved in several property funds which are dependent on the market being stable. It sounds like you're not really sure whether you use a fund manager or not, so which entity do you use to purchases these shares, and I'll use my vacuous, albeit legally qualified mind to check whether its as (a) possible and (b) ethical as you claim.

BambinaJAS · 03/04/2022 16:35

@SucculentChalice

SwanBuster So every single equity on the stock market is a company ripping people of? I can invest in practically any global instrument of my choice. If I choose to do only ethical investments - I can

Whenever I meet landlords, I don’t feel envy - I feel pity. Their vacuous, empty mind is truly sad to observe

What are your shares held in? Narcissism Limited Holdings plc?

Perhaps those you feel so superior to are simply hedging/risk spreading.

If you use any of the tax advantages provided by a personal pension for those investments, you are almost certainly involved in several property funds which are dependent on the market being stable. It sounds like you're not really sure whether you use a fund manager or not, so which entity do you use to purchases these shares, and I'll use my vacuous, albeit legally qualified mind to check whether its as (a) possible and (b) ethical as you claim.

You seem to be pretty clueless about what a SIPP is.

A self-invested personal pension (SIPP) allows the person to choose their investments.

You simply don't pick a property fund by mistake.

Additionally, even in occupational pensions you can now choose which funds you want them to invest your money in (and in what %'s).

It is all very straight forward.

Buying a physical property for retirement income is a choice.

One you absolutely do not have to do these days.

SwanBuster · 03/04/2022 16:43

@SucculentChalice

SwanBuster So every single equity on the stock market is a company ripping people of? I can invest in practically any global instrument of my choice. If I choose to do only ethical investments - I can

Whenever I meet landlords, I don’t feel envy - I feel pity. Their vacuous, empty mind is truly sad to observe

What are your shares held in? Narcissism Limited Holdings plc?

Perhaps those you feel so superior to are simply hedging/risk spreading.

If you use any of the tax advantages provided by a personal pension for those investments, you are almost certainly involved in several property funds which are dependent on the market being stable. It sounds like you're not really sure whether you use a fund manager or not, so which entity do you use to purchases these shares, and I'll use my vacuous, albeit legally qualified mind to check whether its as (a) possible and (b) ethical as you claim.

You are making some gross assumptions - the hall mark of a landlord.

‘I’m not sure if I use a fund manager or not’ - the breathtaking arrogance. I know exactly what I’m doing.

I’m totally self invested - in SIPPs, ISAs and in margin trading accounts like spread bets where I don’t actually treat it as such (I.e I always fund with the full value of the underlying purchase).

This gives me access to pretty much anything - other than things that the FCA (in their own stupidity) don’t allow - like crypto.

And so no - none of my investments - other than the indirect underlying assets of the some companies - are property. They are however, all productive and not parasites.

SwanBuster · 03/04/2022 16:44

@SucculentChalice

SwanBuster So every single equity on the stock market is a company ripping people of? I can invest in practically any global instrument of my choice. If I choose to do only ethical investments - I can

Whenever I meet landlords, I don’t feel envy - I feel pity. Their vacuous, empty mind is truly sad to observe

What are your shares held in? Narcissism Limited Holdings plc?

Perhaps those you feel so superior to are simply hedging/risk spreading.

If you use any of the tax advantages provided by a personal pension for those investments, you are almost certainly involved in several property funds which are dependent on the market being stable. It sounds like you're not really sure whether you use a fund manager or not, so which entity do you use to purchases these shares, and I'll use my vacuous, albeit legally qualified mind to check whether its as (a) possible and (b) ethical as you claim.

So yeah - your ‘legally qualified’ mind doesn’t seem to know much about modern investment vehicles.
SucculentChalice · 03/04/2022 16:51

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SwanBuster · 03/04/2022 16:57

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OUchica · 03/04/2022 17:02

We are first time land lords by chance. As dh's new job required us to move to another European country so we are renters in our existing flat.

Our mortgage is same as the rent we receive, it's about £15 more than rent. On top we pay for agency fees, have already had to spend on technician visit for boiler a few times as new tenant is not from UK and couldn't re adjust the water pressure. She also wanted a peofessional visit to check brand new cooker we got few months before we moved out, as she burnt her cakes twice. On the other hand, we are paying €700 more on our rent now for similar area size, and ad renters we were sent €200 technician visit bill for a dishwasher with faulty eco wash setting. There was no prior agreement about this but it's a strong owners market. On the other hand, in London our property price has slightly went down, it was a renter's market last year so tenant was able to negotiate price, we had to change blinds per renter's liking and painted walls in Little Greene paint while.our tenant forgot to inform us that she has a pet and was expecting a child with a visiting boyfriend. We werw told there was a single, peofessional female but suddenly there is a young family. We have no problem with any of it but find it strange she didn't tell us this. While where we are renting now, we had to submit our complete professional history, the landlord got minor touch ups on the stains on the wall, previous tenants lived for 7 years and had 2 very young kids. We were made to purchase their furniture as they had offers from other potential tenants.
We had lived as tenants in 2 properties in UK before finally owning one, so I can see both sides. But it's wrong to say that every landlord in UK is out to make profits and there are no accidental or decent landlords.

OUchica · 03/04/2022 17:04

Sorry for the typos, and what I meant by €700 extra is extra than what we are receiving in the UK in rent.

SeasonFinale · 03/04/2022 17:08

@Jobseeker19

I have yet to meet a landlord who pays insurance.
They have to have buildings insurance as a term of their mortgage. The tenant sorts out their own contents insurance. There is no obligation to disclose the insurance policy to the tenant. hth
BambinaJAS · 03/04/2022 17:09

@SucculentChalice

*SwanBuster You are making some gross assumptions - the hall mark of a landlord.(

My dear. I'm a lawyer first, a landlord second. I'm deliberately baiting you to get information.

My DH is a corporate lawyer.

You are a low quality lawyer judging by your knowledge about basic investments.

Cameleongirl · 03/04/2022 17:11

@Blossomtoes

But why shouldn’t it be a business?

Because a roof over your head is a very basic and fundamental human need. And yes so are water, heat and light. None of them should be businesses and they weren’t until Thatcher skewed the balance of our society.

But when I chose to move around for various jobs, whom should I have expected to house me? Go to the council and say that I needed a flat for a couple of years, because I'd chosen to take a job opportunity in a particular place? Same with students, most have a home address with their families, they're choosing to temporarily live

I think there's a place in society for private lets, but I agree that more social housing is definitely needed.

Cameleongirl · 03/04/2022 17:12

*live elsewhere.