Are we taking bets yet on when mass civil unrest will begin re. Cost of living?

[UsernameInTheTown]

Having frozen my backside off these past two days as I'm terrified to have the heating on longer than an hour a day, I'm thinking that this will be utterly intolerable come next Winter. Will there be mass civil unrest and the guillotine rolled out while the affluent are targeted by the desperate and those with nothing left to loose?

The countries that are suffering less economically are the ones apparently who had the strictest lockdowns - in the east

Covid hasn't helped
Brexit hasn't helped
The Russian problem hasn't helped

The rising energy prices were predicted over a decade ago and I think covid has just helped trigger the inevitable - and action ten years ago could have helped - moving more quickly towards green electricity and energy independence

Similarly food prices will rise because we import so much food ( so we are good insecure ) rely so much on artificial fertiliser ( to save a few pennies short term at a huge long term cost ) and haven't got enough workers to harvest what we have grown recently ( brexit )

Brexit was all about independence yet in the things that matter we have no independence

@RufustheFloralmissingreindeer

It’s a good thing at least some of us can see straight through it

Oh good lord 😀

It is amusing I agree

But also wrong as the feminism board has been ahead of this. I probably only took notice after a while, the HoL decision particularly stuck in my mind as an impetus

This is Britain. There will not be mass civil unrest. A few people may march, many will tut, many will not even bother to express their view via the ballot box or to their Tory MP if they have one.

I think not until we’ll into next winter when the next rise starts to bite. December time maybe.

@BigWoollyJumpers

Way back a poster asked what would labour do? No responses.

That's the problem, either they have no ideas, or, actually, there is nothing extra/different that can be done.

This is global. You can tweak about in the edges, as we did during Covid, keeping people on furlough etc. But at the moment, we are in the same boat as everyone else.

That was me!

Still waiting for the suggestions to come flooding in......

Think I’ll still be waiting for some time too....

There is not plenty labour could do, or the greens, Lib Dem’s etc.

Those of us who are realistic understand that this is a worldwide problem which will not be fixed by a different government. You only have to look at labour who were pressing to extend the lockdown to understand they don’t think with an economic head on their shoulders!

Thank goodness we have a welfare state and plenty of good charities and kind people who volunteer.

And the issue about women is actually the most important of the who,e lot because if we don’t vote on that then society as we know it is dead and buried.

*Look at the massive crime increase in the US. Especially the democrat run ones and the ones who "defunded the police".

And when did you last see a police officer here?*

What are you even talking about? This is Daily Mail regurgitation nonsense. "Democrat run ones"?
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, assume that you're a British person living in Britain, and thus that you might not know that "Democrat run cities" is racist dog whistling in the USA. So, some facts:

First, most cities in America are governed primarily by Democrats (2/3 of major cities). So you're really talking about cities rather than Democrats.

Second, crime is up in most cities across America. This includes cities run by Republicans and Independents. In the top 21 cities, there are only four of these; three of them (Fort Worth, San Antonio, Oklahoma City) also had major crime spikes last year.

Third, while policing changes probably had something to do with it, it's not nearly as simple as "defund the police." Crime also went way up in cities that spent more on police than ever before (Atlanta, Phoenix, Houston).

In fact, I can stop typing and just send this: www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2022/01/28/fact-check-police-funding-not-linked-homicide-spikes-experts-say/9054639002/

Try to think a little bit before you post.

Watermelon politically I’d say Labour are going for windfall tax to set them apart.

Reading up on it it doesn’t seem as straightforward as appears - it can have knock on effects on price or pensions

Trainbear, I wanted to add: I had to learn these things myself, when I moved to the States. But genuinely, a quick google will get you much, much further than listening to the DM or Facebook.

@Lovelyricepudding

Those who think the government has control over wholesale oil and gas prices have a rather inflated view of the UK part in the global oil and gas production and market place.

Exactly, good excuse for the usual MNetters to blame them though.

The govt has a choice over who to tax. And they have a choice to bring in cheap renewable power sources like some other countries do.

@MarshaBradyo

Watermelon politically I’d say Labour are going for windfall tax to set them apart.

Reading up on it it doesn’t seem as straightforward as appears - it can have knock on effects on price or pensions

I know, it sounds a good idea in principle, like many of labour’s pledges. But when you read up a bit more and cut to the bare bones it seems it creates more problems than it solves and could end up not making much difference at all.

I wish they would start using the gas in the North Sea again

@MarshaBradyo

Watermelon politically I’d say Labour are going for windfall tax to set them apart.

Reading up on it it doesn’t seem as straightforward as appears - it can have knock on effects on price or pensions

It is exactly as straightforward as it appears. Shareholders in Energy having to pay back a bit of the massive profits being made to help folk cope with the massive increase in the cost of heating and eating.

It's straightforward, transparent and relatively easy.

@woodhill

I wish they would start using the gas in the North Sea again

Yes. It’s completely bonkers to have our own gas and import it. The older I get, the more I think the world’s completely mad.

It would provide opportunities and maybe the cost could come down

TooBig I’m still reading up, this made me consider it more.

‘But experience shows that, while well-intentioned, a windfall tax on providers could actually do more damage than good. The Treasury might reap a short-term gain, but the energy industry – and, ultimately, consumers - could be left to deal with the long-term pain.

Part of the concern lies in the question of who ends up paying the tax. If the burden falls on shareholders, then millions of ordinary people will foot the bill through pension funds, savings and insurance policies that have investments in the oil and gas industry. Alternatively, if the tax forces energy companies to increase prices, then it is their customers who will ultimately pay – the very people that the proposed windfall tax is intended to help.’

I also didn’t not know -
‘The oil and gas sector’s profits are already taxed at a rate of 40% – more than double that of any other sector of the economy’

We also seem to tax at a high level compared to G7 countries

From here www.opec.org/opec_web/en/data_graphs/333.htm

It’s a headline grabber, but still seeing what’s out there

Especially the democrat run ones and the ones who "defunded the police".

I don't know about America but in the UK the only people I've seen who actually DO defund the police are the Tories. And they defund the courts.

Woodhill - New gas and oil licences for the North Sea would not be compatible with the UK's pledge to reduce carbon emissions. In order to keep those at the agreed level no countries are supposed to be opening up New gas and oil fields. If we want to do that then we will need to persuade another country to shut theres in order to keep the emission levels down.

I get that but I think we need to balance this up with being less dependent on gas imports.

It's a natural resource in the British Isles and I think we should have some access to it now that the situation has changed and everything has become so expensive

And I'm afraid I'm done with the carbon neutral utopia which is unrealistic

The people that the proposed windfall tax is meant to help may not make it through next winter. I'm in a different part of the UK, we don't have the Price Cap here so I've been living with the increases for a year. Mine and many others have seen prices double. The are expected to rise again and again this year.

Poor heating and poor diet will wreak havoc on the NHS. Bed blocking will become more of a problem as patients will not be able to be discharged to cold, damp homes. Emergency housing, already in crisis, will be fucked as demand rockets due to unwell children living in unsuitable conditions.

The rich will always come up with reasons for their money to be protected and considered more important than human life.

Woodhill - New gas and oil licences for the North Sea would not be compatible with the UK's pledge to reduce carbon emissions. In order to keep those at the agreed level no countries are supposed to be opening up New gas and oil fields. If we want to do that then we will need to persuade another country to shut theres in order to keep the emission levels down.
What a shame David Cameron decided to 'cut all the green crap' ten years ago. We'd be in a much better position now if he hadn't done that, still, it was very popular with his voters at the time.

@TooBigForMyBoots

The people that the proposed windfall tax is meant to help may not make it through next winter. I'm in a different part of the UK, we don't have the Price Cap here so I've been living with the increases for a year. Mine and many others have seen prices double. The are expected to rise again and again this year.

Poor heating and poor diet will wreak havoc on the NHS. Bed blocking will become more of a problem as patients will not be able to be discharged to cold, damp homes. Emergency housing, already in crisis, will be fucked as demand rockets due to unwell children living in unsuitable conditions.

The rich will always come up with reasons for their money to be protected and considered more important than human life.

If Labour win in 2024 it might be put in place quickly but the election is a while off.

If they do win hopefully it’s a sound policy and more than a superficial headline grabber for votes and doesn’t have the kick backs some are pointing out. Pensions or passed on ad extra costs to customer make it more every day than shareholder angle.

@woodhill

And I'm afraid I'm done with the carbon neutral utopia which is unrealistic

Yeah let's abandon any attempt to control climate change ,after all it's much better to spend a few billion every year to clear up the mess and provide mitigations than spend a few billion once to avoid the problems

I mean if we had gone green back in the 1990s when scientists wanted then gas and petrol price rises would be so much more serious than they are today
Right ?

@Mamamia7962

Woodhill - New gas and oil licences for the North Sea would not be compatible with the UK's pledge to reduce carbon emissions. In order to keep those at the agreed level no countries are supposed to be opening up New gas and oil fields. If we want to do that then we will need to persuade another country to shut theres in order to keep the emission levels down.

Maybe we could get Russia to shut some of theirs! 😬😆