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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Porn star martini Pizza Express

591 replies

Flour8977 · 31/03/2022 16:47

Why are Pizza Express advertising 'Porn Star Martinis' on every table at their restaurants? AIBU to find this disgusting for a family restaurant? I don't really wish to explain to my 6 year old what it is.

OP posts:
AskingforaBaskin · 02/04/2022 13:27

*was not real

tigerbird · 02/04/2022 13:29

All those uses of virgin are metaphorical. They haven’t acquired totally different meanings! They’re called virgin because women who haven’t had sex are compared to unspoilt lands, the purest products on sale, blah blah blah. Virgin is just far more normalised because it’s such a long-standing usage that we don’t think about it much any more. Doesn’t make it any less sexist underneath.

If you haven’t even seen any current porn then you are remarkably willing to sound off on porn culture without knowing anything about it. For anyone who thinks it’s all just a big fuss over nothing, why don’t you take a look at what’s actually being normalised before you pronounce on it? There certainly aren’t many “stars” in evidence.

AskingforaBaskin · 02/04/2022 13:31

@tigerbird

All those uses of virgin are metaphorical. They haven’t acquired totally different meanings! They’re called virgin because women who haven’t had sex are compared to unspoilt lands, the purest products on sale, blah blah blah. Virgin is just far more normalised because it’s such a long-standing usage that we don’t think about it much any more. Doesn’t make it any less sexist underneath.

If you haven’t even seen any current porn then you are remarkably willing to sound off on porn culture without knowing anything about it. For anyone who thinks it’s all just a big fuss over nothing, why don’t you take a look at what’s actually being normalised before you pronounce on it? There certainly aren’t many “stars” in evidence.

So you watch and critique all the porn? Wow I wouldn't think you'd be so willing to contribute to the funding and commercialisation of abuse like that.
Lunar27 · 02/04/2022 13:33

That's some research going on there HmmWink

Lunar27 · 02/04/2022 13:35

I think the premise of your argument is that there's a very clear cut link between a named cocktail and the industry. Whilst frustrating, we don't all think so and that this normalisation is particularly valid.

AskingforaBaskin · 02/04/2022 13:39

@Lunar27

That's some research going on there HmmWink
If you haven’t even seen any current porn then you are remarkably willing to sound off on porn culture without knowing anything about it

But the poster clearly states here that you can't have a clear understand of the rape abuse and glorification of porn without seeing it.

Lunar27 · 02/04/2022 13:43

@AskingforaBaskin.

Sadly my parental controls won't allow it Wink

Lunar27 · 02/04/2022 13:44

And I'm not going to check either. How the hell would I explain to my wife that I'm surfing porn sites because someone on Mumsnet said I should!

AskingforaBaskin · 02/04/2022 13:46

Luckily my husband understands I have the unfightable urge to Google anything I don't know and will just disregard anything he sees on history.

The internet is very interesting.

AskingforaBaskin · 02/04/2022 13:47

I never told anyone to. I don't watch porn at all because I don't agree with it.

I like literature and have found that sufficient. But the argument that I can't understand the issues around porn without watching it hilarious.

Moonface123 · 02/04/2022 14:04

l was on a train once with my son , he was probably about 9/10 ish, a Virgin train passed us and he said quite loudly infront of everyone "Mum, what is a virgin because the other kids go on about it in school ?"
The carriage went completely quiet, it was jam packed, l felt all eyes on me and the best l could come up with was " Ummmm, I"ll tell you later once we get home".

Blossomtoes · 02/04/2022 14:11

@NurseBernard

Can you please provide one example of this drink leading to a direct path of porn for an actual child?

And - once again - the level of critical thinking on here is seriously shit.

You keep saying this as if it’s incredibly clever and proves your huge intellectual superiority. Some of the posts you’ve addressed it to make perfectly pertinent points with which you just happen to disagree.
tigerbird · 02/04/2022 14:15

I think the premise of your argument is that there's a very clear cut link between a named cocktail and the industry. Whilst frustrating, we don't all think so and that this normalisation is particularly valid.

No, this is wrong - the premise of the argument is that there is not a “very clear cut” link but a complex and systemic one. You have mine and others’ “argument” very wrong here.

But the poster clearly states here that you can't have a clear understand of the rape abuse and glorification of porn without seeing it

Again, wrong - you are completely misreading what I said, either through not being able to understand, or by deliberately distorting what I wrote. Which is it?

There are some serious reading comprehension issues going on here which, if deliberate, does not make either of you sound very rational. If you really can’t understand the argument I won’t bother. If you’re just twisting what people are saying for the fun or arguing the wrong point, then it really doesn’t make you look very clever, if that’s the intent.

Why do you think metaphors that are about the use of women’s bodies sexually by men are so easily normalised? Because there are already loads of them buried in our language. Linguists call this “routinization” - the process by which we repeat a metaphor so often that we think of it as “semantically bleached” even though the original implications of the metaphor remain at the unconscious and cultural levels. So uses of phrases that relate to women’s bodies being sold to or commercialised to men quickly become part of the culture - pornstar, food porn whore pimp my ride for example - because we are so culturally conditioned by centuries of misogyny to treat these metaphors as normal and trivial. The link between the normalisation of something and its effects in wider culture is not “easy” or “straightforward”. It’s complex, culture-wide and systemic.

On porn - well yes, obviously it does matter if you know what it involves or not. There is no abstract reason why porn has to be misogynist apart from our culture. We are sexual beings and it’s possible to imagine a type of porn that adult women might enjoy to look at and that wouldn’t be culturally harmful to girls and women. However, that isn’t what is out there. What we are objecting to on this thread is the normalisation of extremely misogynist pornography which portrays women and very young girls as objects to be beaten, abused and used in the current porn culture pervading our society.

And portraying porn as a bit of a cheeky business opportunity for a family restaurant is part of pretending that it’s a harmless industry that’s just a bit naughty and adult, rather than a violent, abusive culture that teaches people who watch it that women and girls are just sexual possessions to destroy.

If you cannot understand the connections, you could do some more reading and thinking - and inform yourself about what it is that you are defending. You aren’t defending a bit of light AO3 fanfic erotica here. You’re defending “smashing my teen stepsister’s ass and she loves it when I choke her” on pornhub being passed around to twelve year old girls who think that’s normal and expected of them even if they hate it.

AskingforaBaskin · 02/04/2022 14:18

@tigerbird

I think the premise of your argument is that there's a very clear cut link between a named cocktail and the industry. Whilst frustrating, we don't all think so and that this normalisation is particularly valid.

No, this is wrong - the premise of the argument is that there is not a “very clear cut” link but a complex and systemic one. You have mine and others’ “argument” very wrong here.

But the poster clearly states here that you can't have a clear understand of the rape abuse and glorification of porn without seeing it

Again, wrong - you are completely misreading what I said, either through not being able to understand, or by deliberately distorting what I wrote. Which is it?

There are some serious reading comprehension issues going on here which, if deliberate, does not make either of you sound very rational. If you really can’t understand the argument I won’t bother. If you’re just twisting what people are saying for the fun or arguing the wrong point, then it really doesn’t make you look very clever, if that’s the intent.

Why do you think metaphors that are about the use of women’s bodies sexually by men are so easily normalised? Because there are already loads of them buried in our language. Linguists call this “routinization” - the process by which we repeat a metaphor so often that we think of it as “semantically bleached” even though the original implications of the metaphor remain at the unconscious and cultural levels. So uses of phrases that relate to women’s bodies being sold to or commercialised to men quickly become part of the culture - pornstar, food porn whore pimp my ride for example - because we are so culturally conditioned by centuries of misogyny to treat these metaphors as normal and trivial. The link between the normalisation of something and its effects in wider culture is not “easy” or “straightforward”. It’s complex, culture-wide and systemic.

On porn - well yes, obviously it does matter if you know what it involves or not. There is no abstract reason why porn has to be misogynist apart from our culture. We are sexual beings and it’s possible to imagine a type of porn that adult women might enjoy to look at and that wouldn’t be culturally harmful to girls and women. However, that isn’t what is out there. What we are objecting to on this thread is the normalisation of extremely misogynist pornography which portrays women and very young girls as objects to be beaten, abused and used in the current porn culture pervading our society.

And portraying porn as a bit of a cheeky business opportunity for a family restaurant is part of pretending that it’s a harmless industry that’s just a bit naughty and adult, rather than a violent, abusive culture that teaches people who watch it that women and girls are just sexual possessions to destroy.

If you cannot understand the connections, you could do some more reading and thinking - and inform yourself about what it is that you are defending. You aren’t defending a bit of light AO3 fanfic erotica here. You’re defending “smashing my teen stepsister’s ass and she loves it when I choke her” on pornhub being passed around to twelve year old girls who think that’s normal and expected of them even if they hate it.

I quoted you saying that I can't understand the issues with porn because I don't watch it.
Cheeserton · 02/04/2022 14:19

This isn't tricky. Have it on the drinks menu. Don't advertise sat in the middle of the table in front of child.

Nanny0gg · 02/04/2022 14:21

@ReadtheReviews

For the people who are cool with it as it's just a drink, would these be okay?

Adios Motherfucker
Bend Over Shirley
Sex on My Face
Red-Headed Slut
Cock-Sucking Cowboy

All actually cocktails. Bend Over Shirley gives me the giggles and could probably get away with that one, but...It's about introducing inappropriate (because it's sexual and/or misogynistic) language into a child's (and presumably their friends on the playground's) vocabulary.

See, call me old-fashioned (because I am), but I really don't get it.

They're not clever, they're not funny and they're not classy.

Why has everything got to be a race to the bottom?

tigerbird · 02/04/2022 14:22

Oh really, it’s just like arguing with thirteen year olds now.

AskingforaBaskin · 02/04/2022 14:24

@tigerbird

Oh really, it’s just like arguing with thirteen year olds now.
Another insult with no actual content.
tigerbird · 02/04/2022 14:27

Rubbish - I wrote a long post full of content and your response was not about any of it but just “but I said she said” basically, so don’t be a hypocrite when you’re not responding to any “content”. It’s a kid’s version of having a pretend debate.

GoodJanetBadJanet · 02/04/2022 14:27

Exactly, no actual engaging, just poo flinging Hmm

Blossomtoes · 02/04/2022 14:28

What we are objecting to on this thread is the normalisation of extremely misogynist pornography which portrays women and very young girls as objects to be beaten, abused and used in the current porn culture pervading our society

In which case, put your energy and indignation into something that actually addresses that.

tigerbird · 02/04/2022 14:29

What in my post was “poo flinging”? I took the time to write long discussion posts, Janet - haven’t seen much content from you in response. I notice you’ve not responded to anyone’s actual questions either. It’s just DARVO and it makes you look juvenile.

AskingforaBaskin · 02/04/2022 14:29

@tigerbird

Rubbish - I wrote a long post full of content and your response was not about any of it but just “but I said she said” basically, so don’t be a hypocrite when you’re not responding to any “content”. It’s a kid’s version of having a pretend debate.
I replied to you. You chose to insult me rather than engage. Something which you have followed throughout.

It says a lot that you have led to insults so routinely.

GoodJanetBadJanet · 02/04/2022 14:38

As in you're resorting to insults, patronising etc
Yes, this
You chose to insult me rather than engage.
Something which you have followed throughout.
It says a lot that you have led to insults so routinely.

CupOfCake · 02/04/2022 14:44

Buns, get her buns...