A PhD is a huge waste of time- aibu

[Bluffysummers]

I’d quantify this and say in the humanities.

I did one, worked hard to complete it, stress, time and money. I was totally duped into it, lecturers telling me how good I was and blowing smoke up my arse and implying I’d get a job at the end of it… in my subject there were 3 jobs nationwide when I graduated none full time…and god knows how many candidates.

I left academia and guess what, no one cares if you have a PhD, in fact I think it’s more of a hinderance than an asset. I spent 10 years in education and all it did was delay my industry and career experience, so basically hinder me.

Aibu to say If you’re thinking of doing a humanities PhD don’t.

@belle40

It depends why you are doing it! Essential for work in any academic or research field. Interesting that you describe your supervisors 'blowing smoke up my arse' ...did you not think about career planning as part of your decision to do this?

Replied to this in another comment but yes I did, I had a strong wink wink nudge nudge that there’d be a job in it at the end for me, i mean there was a job 50% fte one year and of course I’d have had to apply and I knew there would be a lot more experienced people than I going for it, i had a plan b too one that really surprisingly fell through. Definitely should have researched grad schemes more thoroughly but I just wanted to work in academia so bad. I thoroughly enjoyed teaching and giving seminars, helping students who were struggling with essays and work turn it around.

I can’t believe I forgot to mention until now but I even had a plan C, if my funding fell through, a conversion course to convert my uG into another discipline, a 1 year course i was already accepted onto but was talked out of it and lured back in with ‘next year, the funding will be yours’ ‘don’t give up now, you’ve come so far, your research is impeccable’ etc

As someone about to embark on one (while teaching at uni as a 0.6) this thread is making me very nervous 😬

My sympathies OP! My sister is coming to the end of a 4-5 year geography-related PhD stint, and it's a very touchy subject. She's burnt out, angry and felt completely unsupported by the university during Covid.

On the upside, she does have work experience and a lot of contacts in the Third Sector due to her PhD who would love to take her on (at least that's the impression I have). But (to her) she's late 20s, behind her peers in terms of life goals, and unlikely to hit those goals for a number of years.

@TheRealBoswell

Op isn’t it still possible to complete the teacher training programme exclusively for PhD holders? If not, I’d consider working abroad and applying for jobs in academia in other universities around the world.

I’ve only joined LinkedIn recently and I saw some of my connections “like” posts that were very similar…several people posting things about what kind of job they’re looking for etc. with all the relevant hashtags and there were specific recruitment companies being mentioned. And I noticed that recruiters posted on those posts. I also noticed that there were a lot of recruiters on LinkedIn so that might be one way to look for a job?

I don’t think so, they said that the moment a spot opened up, I’d hear from them, it’s 2022 and I’ve not heard anything

My job now is fine, it’s that odd predicament post PhD where I’m paid more than my friends who are working in academia and have far greater perks and job security, and definitely more than those who due to the pandemic lost their contracts and are now working in bars/ coffee shops to stay afloat but not as much as I would be if I’d done a grad scheme straight after my masters. I wish wish wish I’d not applied for the grad scheme where I work now, I’d be on a pretty penny. Again shitty uni career advice was told you can only do 1 Grad scheme

Academia has largely lost its way…unless it was in a field that specifically required a PhD to progress, such as a STEM subject, I wouldn’t do one today. With some notable exceptions, the brightest people who are driving innovation and advancing their field are IME hands on in the real world, not in a university.

@Bluffysummers you might find that the PhD rewards come later. I would advise you to keep moving in your career, don’t stay with the same employer, keep advancing and there will come a point where your experience makes you very employable. It’s at this point when employers will notice that you have proved through completing a PhD that you have great tenacity and intellectual ability as well. It’s a winning combination.

When I wanted to pursue further studies, I was told not to do a PhD but choose an applied doctorate instead as it would give me time to focus on studies as well as gaining relevant work experience in my chosen field. I'm so glad I listened. Having said that, a PhD is still considered 'better' than a doctorate in some circles. When I corrected someone that I had a Doctorate and not a PhD at a dinner party, someone called it the wannabe PhD and the entire table burst out laughing- no one seemed interested in hear what the difference between the two were. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I do believe though that education is never wasted. Yes, a PhD might not have opened as many doors are you may have liked but it's a qualification you should be proud of having- the grit and determination required to do one is awe-inspiring. And, the fact that you're considered an expert in your field (among people who know what you do) surely validates having one. I'd love to study further but my doctorate took blood, sweat and tears to do and I'd never do anything as intense again.

I'm hearing*

In*

I have a PhD in medical sciences and I would say they are usefull for career progression. I have stayed in academia but my friends who havent work in jobs that require phds or where they are viewed as beneficial. These include private sector research, scientific writing, equipment reps, drug company reps.
However I'm not sure how usefull they are outside of science. I have a friend who did a humanities PhD and after spending 10 years trying to secure a job in academia he has ended up being giving up.

If it is for job prospects, probably YANBU. However, that should never be the sole motivation for education.

Completely agree with you OP. Particularly for humanity subjects, it's a complete waste of time! The people I know who do/did PhD 's were basically afraid of the world of work!

@dottypencilcase

When I wanted to pursue further studies, I was told not to do a PhD but choose an applied doctorate instead as it would give me time to focus on studies as well as gaining relevant work experience in my chosen field. I'm so glad I listened. Having said that, a PhD is still considered 'better' than a doctorate in some circles. When I corrected someone that I had a Doctorate and not a PhD at a dinner party, someone called it the wannabe PhD and the entire table burst out laughing- no one seemed interested in hear what the difference between the two were. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I do believe though that education is never wasted. Yes, a PhD might not have opened as many doors are you may have liked but it's a qualification you should be proud of having- the grit and determination required to do one is awe-inspiring. And, the fact that you're considered an expert in your field (among people who know what you do) surely validates having one. I'd love to study further but my doctorate took blood, sweat and tears to do and I'd never do anything as intense again.

Not sure I understand the distinction? Isn't doctorate the umbrella term? A PhD is a doctor of philosophy = a doctorate. And other types of doctorate e.g. Doctor of Public Health being one that I know of, is also a doctorate. Given that you can get a DrPH at Harvard, it's hardly a lesser degree!

I was confused about that as well - are people talking about an MPhil?

I have a postgraduate master's that relates to my professional job - librarian that was very useful to get me where I am now but th sector is very underpaid. My husband is senior lecturer whose PhD was necessary. I don't think his wages are woeful - but I don't have experience of wages in other sectors. The short term contracts were very frustrating but the job suits him and he enjoys it, he's 40 now and most likely will be a professor before he's 50. Academia requires an awful lot of self discipline and constant seeking grants, publishing etc. It wouldn't be for me.

My nephew said two of his friends did PhDs because they didn't feel ready for work. My best friend's dd is doing one because she doesn't know what else she can do - she doesn't want a job, she doesn't want to teach undergrads either.

One stand out job application from a PhD holder was 10 pages long - cover letter - 5 pages, CV - 5 pages. The cover letter included a transcript of a conversation between the candidate and her tutor. I've never seen anything like it - I didn't read the CV. 😂

So you ask yourself - someone who is so skilled at research produces something so wholly inappropriate - btw someone "who worked in an office" in a professional job - would have had that nonsense knocked out of them in the first week - or they'd be asked to take a hike back to academia.

This is an entertaining listen
freakonomics.com/podcast/why-is-academic-writing-so-bad/

@PenStation

I was confused about that as well - are people talking about an MPhil?

An mphil isn’t a doctorate though it’s a research masters

Have to agree. Career wise, it’s needed for academia / research, but in the outside world no one really cares. In fact I’ve found mine to be a disadvantage: people question why sometimes with a PhD would want to do a more hands-on, non academic job.

@PenStation

I was confused about that as well - are people talking about an MPhil?

No, they're talking about professional doctorates, which are generally completed by people who are working and practising in their field rather than studying full-time. They essentially have equivalent status to a PhD but they're a doctorate of ((specific thing)) rather than of philosophy. I briefly considered doing an applied doctorate in occupational psychology, which would have been a DOccPsych, and there are also applied doctorates in education, business, public health, etc. Academic snobs do occasionally consider them "the poor man's PhD", but that is, IME, self-justifying bullshit.

Yanbu.
Why the very bright end up earning buttons is beyond me.

For the most part, yes I agree with you OP.

I started a PhD in my early 30s after having worked throughout my 20s in the cultural sector. I never wanted to go into academia - so I'm honestly not sure why I pursued a PhD! It was part-funded and I also worked part-time and had kids so the whole shebang took me 6 years - it was a massive chunk of my thirties.

I'm in two minds about the value of my thesis and of the whole experience. I found it really hard and frustrating at times - I felt like I didn't really know what I was doing and wasn't really helped along the way by my supervisors (who were lovely but too busy essentially). It was also hard having kids and studying as I felt a bit inadequate when I compared myself to mums who had 'proper' jobs. So in some ways I felt like it was a bit pointless. When I finished I felt a massive sense of achievement but it was also a huge anti-climax. I loved my subject right till the end though.

And now? I work as a consultant in the same sector and I feel that the PhD certainly gives me credibility and a confidence boost. As the thesis is related to my field I feel that people automatically assume you know what you're talking about if you have a PhD. At the same time, I also regret not jumping into another job instead of doing the thesis. I'm not sure whether I would be in a better position or not - perhaps that job may have been rubbish. Or maybe I'd be in senior management by now!

So overall I'd say - yes a thesis in humanities is totally pointless in some ways, in others it's a really fulfilling experience, a project you completely control and pour your heart and soul into. Will it help with career progression though? Nah.

A niece and a nephew have both finished theirs, and they’ve led quickly and easily into jobs in their fields. But both were fully funded - niece is American and hers was environmental-science based, nephew’s was in some aspect of neurology research.

My son is 27 and has a first degree, his age group have had it hard in the labour market following covid and there were not many graduate level jobs around before that. A number of his old school friends are studying for a PhD, the main reason being that they got a degree and couldn't get s job, so they did an MA, still no jobs so now trying to get a PhD. There are only two of them, with scientific backgrounds who are already getting some lecturing alongside their studying that seem to have an long term employment prospects.

@ExConstance

My son is 27 and has a first degree, his age group have had it hard in the labour market following covid and there were not many graduate level jobs around before that. A number of his old school friends are studying for a PhD, the main reason being that they got a degree and couldn't get s job, so they did an MA, still no jobs so now trying to get a PhD. There are only two of them, with scientific backgrounds who are already getting some lecturing alongside their studying that seem to have an long term employment prospects.

The labour market is crazy busy - we had one year where grad schemes were canceled, did they just assume it was shit on going? Feels to me like a lot of kids are terrified of the move from education to work.

Dh has one. He says he finds it useful for the work he does in his civil service job but he could have had the career he has had without it if you see what I mean. That said, he loves the subject he studied and still has a keen interest in it.