School residential is religious

[Stephthegreat]

Dcs school is CofE and as there are four faith schools closest to us we sent dcs to the nearest one. Neither me or dh are religious but we support the values of the faith and the school.

The school used to go to a really fab place for residential and it was full of activities, adventuring, just a really fun weekend. Ds is due to go on camp soon and the new residential the school have chosen looks extremely religious. Ds really doesn’t enjoy this side of school and has his own ideas about faith.

The programme involves daily bible study and ‘getting to know jesus’. There are bible related games and quizzes and prayer sessions. It looks like they do bushcraft and have a bonfire too which is up Ds street. He’s a bit put off by the whole idea and I also think it’s quite serious!

AIBU?

Difference between learning about religion - and going on a residential with evangelicals

Absolutely - though I also agree with viques that the budget could have been an issue here

In recall helping on my ex's school trip where the venue was totally free, providing school staff did all the cleaning afterwards. It turned out they were offering this to drum up interest because there'd been very little footfall so far - and let's just say that, once there among those evangelicals, the reason for that became very clear

OP this is not being run by CMI - creation ministries international?

If so run a mile and pm me if you wish .

As long as you are able to opt out and the alternative educational provision is not being sat at home with some worksheets, but teachers in a classroom, I see no issue.

OP this is not being run by CMI - creation ministries international?

Let's hope not, 2bees; along with creationism, for all I know they may teach that the earth is flat

... and that's the physics curriculum buggered up for a start

[quote Stephthegreat]@StScholastica yes this camp is also run by volunteers who are young kids of gap years.[/quote]
Could be worth asking about DBS checking, what H&S training the volunteers have had, what are their qualifications generally to be working with children, what risk assessments has the school done, etc.

YABU as it is a faith school. YANBU to check the credentials of the camp if it is being run by young volunteers.

I’m afraid if it’s a faith school then yes you’ve signed up for it.

One day trip I did at our convent was to go to a countryside priory, carry a life size cross around countryside and do stations of the cross (Catholic) so be thankfully your DS doesn’t have to do that! I brought some holy water back home in a fetching Virgin Mary container and DM (not Catholic) scoffed at this saying it was only tap water!

Let ds decide and don't try and dissuade him. You're making far too big a deal of it.

A bit of bible study and prayer amongst fun stuff isn't going to hurt. It's good for kids to learn about their own Christian culture and up to now you haven't had any objection to that culture.

@ZenNudist

Let ds decide and don't try and dissuade him. You're making far too big a deal of it.

A bit of bible study and prayer amongst fun stuff isn't going to hurt. It's good for kids to learn about their own Christian culture and up to now you haven't had any objection to that culture.

Yeah, it will be good for them to go away, to be told about a figure who will let you go into Heaven if you're worthy and haven't sinned, how there's this great book which is full of stories on how to behave and it tells of the great battle between good and evil and only the good will be saved.

I wonder if the Bible Study will cover those more controversial aspects of the Bible?

@CareBear50

So he goes to a faith school and you're finding it difficult that they're sharing their faith?

This!

You send him to a Church of England school and complain some of the activities in camp are Christian based? Ok so they are only faith schools around you say (find that hard to believe tbh) but if it is either teach at home or go further to a school, what do you want them to do? My children don't join in in particular things because of our faith and they don't eat pork. The teachers just support them to to some alternative activity if it's something we feel uncomfortable them doing and for food an alternative meal or they take a packed lunch. I don't expect the school to stop doing what they are doing because my family don't believe it.

Ok so they are only faith schools around you say (find that hard to believe tbh) but if it is either teach at home or go further to a school, what do you want them to do

Why is that hard to believe? In many villages, there are only C of E schools.

Village faith schools should recognise that many children in their school come from families who aren't really religious but have little choice over their local school and should think about how they do 'the religion bit' - especially on events like a residential.

I think people are being harsh here. In my town ALL the primary schools are C of E there is no choice! I understand exactly what you're saying.
Out of interest is it the site in Worcestershire?

The problem here is that the C of E is a very broad church - excuse pun - and encompasses many factions from Low Church to High Church. It has an Evangelical wing as well as an Anglo Catholic wing.

It would appear that the residential for this school has been decided by the leanings of the present staff/governors and sounds like an Evangelical experience.

One of the defining traits of Evangelicals is their belief that a person must be converted, often referred to as being "born again," in order to truly be a Christian.

So, OP, IMO you are within your rights to object to your child having to attend this w/e. I would write them a polite letter and say that you are not Evangelical Anglicans and do not want your child to have this kind of teaching.

Yeah, it will be good for them to go away, to be told about a figure who will let you go into Heaven if you're worthy and haven't sinned, how there's this great book which is full of stories on how to behave and it tells of the great battle between good and evil and only the good will be saved

Depending on their beliefs then it may be that "only the good will be saved" won't be true, only the Elect will be saved, a small group who were predestined to be saved before the world was even created and doesn't matter how good you are if you aren't predestined to be saved you're going to the other place regardless. As previous poster has said C of E is a very broad church and in decline, the evangelical wing however is growing in influence and power, they are very good at getting people in to church with their modern services and socials but what they believe is far from modern.

@BikiniB0tt0m

You send him to a Church of England school and complain some of the activities in camp are Christian based? Ok so they are only faith schools around you say (find that hard to believe tbh) but if it is either teach at home or go further to a school, what do you want them to do? My children don't join in in particular things because of our faith and they don't eat pork. The teachers just support them to to some alternative activity if it's something we feel uncomfortable them doing and for food an alternative meal or they take a packed lunch. I don't expect the school to stop doing what they are doing because my family don't believe it.

I dint think OP is expecting the school to stop doing their activity, I think she just doesn't want her son to have to comply with it. In the same way that your DC are offerred alternatives at the school they attend. I am concerned about the quality of some of these residentials though, as I stated earlier, some children at DCs school (including my DD) were upset by the activities. I speak as a practicing Christian (Catholic).

In some places, the majority of schools are faith (voluntary aided) schools.

And most C of E schools in my experience/ observation don't go in for this sort of super-religious Bible camp. A prayer each morning perhaps; but not this emphasis on 'getting to know Jesus'. The ones I know tend to go more in for outdoor woodland activities, and getting to know nature, on residentials.

That being said, you can't force them not to have it. Presumably it's not compulsory; so it's up to him whether he wants to go. He's most unlikely to be converted(!) if he does go. He may be bored. It's ultimately his choice whether the things that he does enjoy would outweigh having to put up with lots of religious activities. FWIW, I suspect that he won't be the only one who finds it uncomfortable- even among the more religious children. Many C of E people prefer a quieter, more reticent approach to religion.

This does sound sussy - faith schools are a cancer but I cannot see a solution yet since many have been grandfathered in after all. Some people have a blind spot in that freedom of religion also means freedom from religion and that consent is the key.
Subsitute 'sex' for religion and you'll see what I mean. Thing is as a child you don't get much control over your peer group, your school, even the ability to regulate your own body temperature if teachers are being dicks so having the freedom of your own mind is rather important.

I would take a different tack as other OP have discussed about how well the staff are trained in things like safeguarding, first aid, what to do if a child makes a disclosure, nature of training, oversight etc, since I suspect that if the staff aren't teens themselves they aren't far out of it.

The residential is in Yorkshire, it’s a ‘gospel camp’ run mostly by volunteers who are on a gap year. They have training at Bible training course.

Ds is feeling jealous as his friend from another school is going to Robinwood where they can do caving, rock climbing, etc. There will be no talk of religion and trained staff. The activities at ds gospel camp will be bonfire, adventure playground and Bible quizzes etc.

Yes I could ask about safeguarding as I have just assumed that will all be okay.

To all those incredulous that people have no option but to use faith schools, get a grip! If you live in a city, you probably have other options. I live in a largely rural county. Every primary school within a 10 mile radius of my house is either C of E or Catholic. We are neither.

To those who are asking what is wrong with the messages of Jesus: nothing, BUT they have been interpreted and commented on so much over the centuries that I'm not sure people understand the actual meanings any more.

My DDs are in their 20s now but when they started at the C of E primary, we accepted the religious songs in assembly, the weekly visits to church and the Christian outlook on everything. The vicar was a decent guy and when my DH was in ICU he was truly lovely. However, he retired and his successor, aided by an evangelical governor, brought in a load of missionary types. DD1 would just zone out and ignore it, but DD2 is far more of a stirrer and would ask all sorts of difficult questions to try to catch them out.

OP. you have my sympathy. If it really is like a bible camp, I think you have 3 choices: send him, send him to school, or organise your own adventure break at the same time.

I would swerve it if I were you. See the documentry 'Jesus Camp' - can be seen on YouTube. I know it is US and there is the wierd George Bush worship bit but I suspect this is more what this camp is about - indoctrination and forced worship rather than anything outdorsy/crafty.

Have any other parents raised concerns?

Also, what year is your son in?

PS puzzledandpissedoff what exactly was that camp like?

John McCain the camp reminded me of my old RE teacher's lessons - in a non-religious school at that - where she used the whole thing as a "recruitment drive". It was much the same thing, with conversion to their particular religion (or joining it if the pupil had none) heavily touted at every turn

And that's why I'm against religious teaching in schools. There's obviously nothing wrong with pure information, in a "this religion believes such and such" sort of way, but it can so easily become something very different, and good luck rooting it out once this sort of thing gets a foothold

@MadMadMadamMim

Don't send your children to a faith school, then complain when they share their faith.

If you object to a religious message being part of school events, choose a secular school.

It is basically that simple.

OP doesn't have a choice. That's the problem. Schools should be secular.

OP - doesn't sound like much of an activity camp. Adventure playground sounds like no real supervision or planned activities as in a playground and a bonfire is a bonfire (with its own hazards) - both a bit low ball as far anything outdoorsy is involved - makes me think it's mostly teens/YA who aren't really trained that much and may or may not have any formal safeguarding training/CBCs.