Dogs… To think it doesn’t matter whether it’s a legal breed or not?!

[MsWalterMitty]

Just read about the recent child death in St Helen’s. It’s so awful!

The breed of dog has been released and it turns out it’s not an illegal breed. It’s called an American Bully XL, never heard of it so I googled it, even though I had an idea what it might look like due to its name.

Surely, whether it’s legal or not, this dog seems like a really stupid choice for a family!

I've just googled a pic. There's no way anyone could look at that dog and think it was a good pet to have around young children. So sad that a poor little innocent has paid the price.
'Police are working to try and identify the previous owners' - surely to god the parents knew who they got the dog from though?
Yes it was a tragic accident, but one that was waiting to happen. How many more stories will we hear about before some sort of legislation is brought in.

[quote XelaM]@Indoctro Pugs are not considered a "bull breed". We have one he's the gentlest little creature[/quote]
Aren't they also called Dutch bull dogs.?

The type of insecure individual who wants to own a dog like an American Bully XL is exactly the sort of person who shouldn’t be allowed to own one.

Cycling: Whilst your Bully will no doubt love to trot and run next to your bicycle, them being XL Bullies means you need to take serious safety-precautions yourself. For example, use a SAFE prong collar; I personally always recommend the Herm Sprenger ones. Whilst prong collars are a highly controversial training aid, in the case of XL Bullies, you might well need the extra bit of control over your dog they give you. Their purpose does not consist in hurting the dog, but in protecting yourself AND the dog from any accidents. Of course, being a responsible owner, you will have educated yourself on the proper use of such a collar prior to using it.

From the guide "prong collar!!!" ffs

Interesting thread. I've read a lot of it, but not all of it.

A friend turned up on our doorstep this morning covered in blood and mud. She was sobbing her heart out and was clearly in shock. I guided her inside so she could explain.

Turns out she'd been out walking her dog in the local park, accidentally let go of his lead and he instantly bolted. He went straight for another dog to attack it, and that other dog's owner tried (understandably) to protect her pet. She'd ended up with a deep laceration to her hand from my friend's dog and the other owner called the police. They attended and took details. They said to my friend that they wouldn't be pressing criminal charges (against friend) but they did want to visit her at home this afternoon to discuss her dog.

This dog, in the past, has chased AND KILLED cats, but also waterfowl like ducks and geese. When I had a baby I made it clear that in no uncertain terms was her dog ever to go anywhere near my child. She understood and respected this.

Today, she stood in my kitchen sobbing and said she didn't want him (the dog) any more. Finally it appeared she was coming to her senses that he is a dangerous dog.

Oh yeah, the breed? He's a Staffie. Staffie owners are so quick to defend the reputation of Staffordshire Bull Terriers, claiming they wouldn't hurt a fly and are completely safe around children. The truth is NO breed of dog is completely safe. Not even the 'big softies' like Labs or Retrievers. We had a Collie cross (died three years ago prior to having children) who lived with two house rabbits and was the softest, daftest, sweetest dog... but I never EVER trusted him alone with the rabbits even for a second because at the end of the day, he was still a dog and all dogs have a breaking point and can snap, especially if provoked.

My friend's dog is not, in my opinion, a 'nice' dog. He isn't friendly, he isn't gentle, he isn't a softie even though my friend has consistently claimed he is. He has killed cats and water birds because he's an aggressive dog, regardless of his breed.

I do not yet know what came of the police visiting my friend. I am waiting to hear and I have genuinely no idea what the police might say. After my friend had left here this morning, I said to my partner that if a dog is capable of killing cats and large birds then it is perfectly capable of killing a child. I'll leave that there.

To the people on this thread who own XL bullies or XL bully mixes - why?! Why out of all the dogs in the world would you choose that breed?!

@Indoctro "Aren't they also called Dutch bull dogs.?"
Yes, but I thought that the name wasn't technically true, as pugs and bulldogs were found to not be at all related. I could be wrong of course. That's what I read

Can't understand why anyone would let any dog near a small baby, nevermind a dog like that that they bought off the internet days before. It's tragic what happened but the thing is it will happen again. I'm in a fb group of mums with the same due date, when our babies arrived you wouldn't believe the number of people that took pictures of their dog snuggled up with their newborn, just idiotic. I wouldn't trust any dog around my children no matter what the breed is.

MsWalterMitty

Pandaless

^I'll probably get a right bashing for this but I'd take a punt they'd be less children killed by dogs if dogs were banned entirely from social and council housing.^

Runs for cover..

I actually agree with this… I bet the majority of historical fatal attacks have been in these houses

I was enjoying your thread OP until you posted above.

How is it fair for DC in council housing to be banned from having a pet.

There are countless online videos of pitbull and XL bully types portrayed as Nanny dogs in huge fancy houses yet you want to ban all dogs from social housing.

Not all areas with social housing are slums allowing crazy dogs, many are settled with strong communities.

I know there are problems on some newer social built areas though a dog licence would weed out the bad from the good or enforcement of the current rules around those breeds.

What the actual fuck?

Poor people can’t have dogs

Do you stand by that comment?

@SevenWaystoLeave

I have never heard of a Belgian Shepherd or a Malinois or a Dutchie attacking a child. I'd be interested to know why you think they are "far more dangerous" as we have one

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7874237/Woman-45-mauled-death-pet-Malinois-Swiss-dog-training-centre.html

The reason you don't often hear of bites from malis or dutch shepherds is that they're not particularly common breeds to own as pets. Doesn't mean they don't or can't bite. I've worked with quite a few malis, I would never ever recommend them as a breed to have around children. They're not nicknamed Maligators for no reason.

Ta for that. First I've heard of . Wasn't a child, but still not good. They are actually very common in other parts of the world - just not in the UK as far as I can see. If they were aggressive I would think the statistics would be higher but who knows. I feel for this family . People make mistakes - we all do, but usually they don't have these kind of consequences.

@Squiff70 Totally agree about Staffies. The "nanny dog" myth is just utterly nonsense. They have been responsible for countless fatal attacks over the years

This?

Imagine telling on yourself like that.

There's a lot of barely veiled snobbery on this thread. Can't believe someone suggested banning dogs entirely from council and social housing! Actually quite shocked!

Yes drug dealers go for big, intimidating dogs. That is true.

But big dog doesn't = drug dealer or some scum of the earth FFS.

(Can't believe someone suggested banning dogs entirely from council and social housing! Actually quite shocked!*

Yes

Even more shocking OP agreed.

Royal Mail holds lists for their postal workers of dangerous dogs.

One of the dangerous dogs on DH's "walk" right now is a Labrador. He knows a bitey JRT too.

It's part genetics, but much more it's how a dog is brought up.

"Not sure where you get this from. Labs are working dogs and have a high bite strength, similar to a German Shepherd and pit bull. Also they can be aggressive. I have a lab who is well trained but he is an alpha male and is aggressive as far as labs go. He responds perfectly to me and my family but I wouldn't leave him with anyone whom I hadn't socialised around him. I've had far more passive rottweilers."

The post this is in response to is indeed a good one as many PP have said but this reply is correct. Labradors and similar do not have weak jaws, they have soft mouths (for retrieving game undamaged) but very strong jaws. I have a dog of an unrelated breed who is the same, he could pick up a live mouse without damaging it (and has done, goodness knows why) but he has enormous jaw strength as well. Luckily his bite inhibition is very, very good unless you are a large rat or a muscovy duck. That being said I am very aware that a large, heavily muscled dog is going to potentially cause far more damage than my DD's Chihuahuas and most other dogs in between. It is an absolute no-brainer that such dogs should not be within reach of children without skilled and knowledgeable supervision, and preferably only children who have been taught that such dogs are potentially dangerous. There are ways and means of seperating dogs from their intended target if they do bite but a dog that has truly lost its mind will be impossible to stop. Sadly people do not understand this. I have seen it once and I hope never to see it again, it was harrowing.
PS my breed has not been mentioned in this thread and they are not any of the pitbull/xl bully type at all.

I googled XL American Bully and the sight of it made me feel physically sick tbh. I'm an adult and I wouldn't want to be in the same house as one. Everyone agrees that they can turn any minute but what happens if it 'turns' while you're happily sleeping in bed minding your own busines......scary thought.

Blimey. I didn't realize there had been two children killed by dogs just this month. Heartbreaking.

Same owners over and over again saying "I have one, it would never hurt a fly, softest dog ever, its the owners not the breed" this is always the same things the people on the news whose children have been killed say they thought till it turned. Yes small dogs can bite but they don't lock jaw the same you can easily kick one off or even kill it if necessary. Just look at the deaths, they are all the same pitbull, staff, bully type breads over and over again. These are a danger to people and they should all be banned. What type of person wants to keep an animal that could so easily turn and kill a child just because the animal considers it a toy or threat only someone trying to make a point would want one. Disgraceful that they haven't all already been banned and the fact that people think it's OK to take these dangerous animal to parks where children play is disgusting.

*business

I reported both the comments.

I mean people will have their opinions on these things. I'm a bit wary of spaniels and miniature doodle crosses because I've known a case of spaniel rage and I've been bitten by a doodle cross before.

But the opinion that poor people shouldn't own dogs is just fucking nasty! I really am a bit gobsmacked!

Bit mad and rolley eyed that some posters would consider me a drug dealer because of my dogs breed (used to be an office worker and I'm about as boringly straight laced as it gets really) but totally horrified at that comment and the OP agreeing!

@Squiff70

Interesting thread. I've read a lot of it, but not all of it.

A friend turned up on our doorstep this morning covered in blood and mud. She was sobbing her heart out and was clearly in shock. I guided her inside so she could explain.

Turns out she'd been out walking her dog in the local park, accidentally let go of his lead and he instantly bolted. He went straight for another dog to attack it, and that other dog's owner tried (understandably) to protect her pet. She'd ended up with a deep laceration to her hand from my friend's dog and the other owner called the police. They attended and took details. They said to my friend that they wouldn't be pressing criminal charges (against friend) but they did want to visit her at home this afternoon to discuss her dog.

This dog, in the past, has chased AND KILLED cats, but also waterfowl like ducks and geese. When I had a baby I made it clear that in no uncertain terms was her dog ever to go anywhere near my child. She understood and respected this.

Today, she stood in my kitchen sobbing and said she didn't want him (the dog) any more. Finally it appeared she was coming to her senses that he is a dangerous dog.

Oh yeah, the breed? He's a Staffie. Staffie owners are so quick to defend the reputation of Staffordshire Bull Terriers, claiming they wouldn't hurt a fly and are completely safe around children. The truth is NO breed of dog is completely safe. Not even the 'big softies' like Labs or Retrievers. We had a Collie cross (died three years ago prior to having children) who lived with two house rabbits and was the softest, daftest, sweetest dog... but I never EVER trusted him alone with the rabbits even for a second because at the end of the day, he was still a dog and all dogs have a breaking point and can snap, especially if provoked.

My friend's dog is not, in my opinion, a 'nice' dog. He isn't friendly, he isn't gentle, he isn't a softie even though my friend has consistently claimed he is. He has killed cats and water birds because he's an aggressive dog, regardless of his breed.

I do not yet know what came of the police visiting my friend. I am waiting to hear and I have genuinely no idea what the police might say. After my friend had left here this morning, I said to my partner that if a dog is capable of killing cats and large birds then it is perfectly capable of killing a child. I'll leave that there.

Someone I know had the end of their nose bitten off by a collie. I never quite feel comfortable around them after that.

[quote XelaM]@Squiff70 Totally agree about Staffies. The "nanny dog" myth is just utterly nonsense. They have been responsible for countless fatal attacks over the years[/quote]
My DH had one growing up in a house where there were four kids. They had her from a puppy and she was a lovely dog and nanny dog suits her. Unfortunately not all are like that I agree

Labs are in the top of these lists because yes they sometimes do bite/ can be aggressive. Because they are so popular - every 2nd owner seems to have a lab for eg - obviously that tips the scales a bit coz there's more labs around to possibly bite. So you get a high number of bites by Labrador reported.

I've actually known a few aggressive Labs, obviously it wasn't their fault but people just assume they are great family dogs - and mostly they are! But they need what all dogs need, training and socialisation and to never be left unsupervised with children.

I’m willing to bet that many lab bites happen because parents get them for their kids and don’t teach the kids to interact with the dog properly so it gets teased and provoked beyond its endurance. So many dogs in rescue centres are described as being unable to live with children under 14 and this is the reason.

I'm a 56 year old granny. I dont have any tattoos and I dont live on a council estate.
My youngest dog is a Staffy XL Bully.