Dogs… To think it doesn’t matter whether it’s a legal breed or not?!

[MsWalterMitty]

Just read about the recent child death in St Helen’s. It’s so awful!

The breed of dog has been released and it turns out it’s not an illegal breed. It’s called an American Bully XL, never heard of it so I googled it, even though I had an idea what it might look like due to its name.

Surely, whether it’s legal or not, this dog seems like a really stupid choice for a family!

American XL bullies are MASSIVE. Really HUGE. They are as broad as a good-sized coffee table and although I think they are cute from afar, only a crazy person could think this was a good family breed. They are so strong! Basically a shorter (but broader) version of an American Pitt Bull. I know crazy people claim that Pitt Bulls are also family-friendly, but it's absolute crap. What is the point in having a dog in your home that is much stronger than you and that you cannot overpower if it decided to attack?! It's total madness.

My (very robust) 12-year-old was knocked off her feet when a (to be fair) friendly American XL Bully jumped up at her to say "hello". They are such powerful dogs.

We have a very friendly toy breed and I can be 100% sure that I am stronger than him and that should he decide to bite, it is not going to be life-threatening. With XL Bullies you really can't be sure of anything

@Changeymcgee

They can be super family dogs in the same way that any other breed can be. However, like every other breed, they need training and socialising (particularly when they are young).

It's not the dogs that are the issue, it's the owners! Sadly, most large and trainable breeds are at higher risk of being used as a status symbol and this is what is happening with bullies and similar.

I have a part bred xl Bully, he also has neo, cane corso and alapaha in him. He's an utter lummox. We made sure, from the moment we got him at 12 weeks, that he was trained and that he was well socialised. We also had firm ground rules with our child in terms of how you behave around a dog. I think this is often forgotten.

I have a part bred xl Bully, he also has neo, cane corso and alapaha in him. He's an utter lummox. We made sure, from the moment we got him at 12 weeks, that he was trained and that he was well socialised. We also had firm ground rules with our child in terms of how you behave around a dog. I think this is often forgotten.

What does neo, cane etc mean? Intrigued why you bought this breed in particular?

@teaandtoastwithmarmite

I agree but my friend at school grew up with two Staffies and they were lovely. Se as DH and his three siblings grew up with one. It's the owner not the dog.

Staffies are slowly but surely no longer the breed being blamed .. there days of been targeted by the media are over and the new dog is now XL Bully and American bull dogs.

Soon Staffies will join the GSD, Doberman etc that used to be the dangerous dogs.

It is both.

Yes a badly trained Yorkie is a nippy little shit. But it they don't kill people. Bull breeds do. Regularly.
These breeds are weapons bought as weird status symbols by idiots.

Just found this on the internet fenrircanineleaders.com/blogs/fenrir-canine-blog/everything-you-need-to-know-about-xl-american-bully-puppies

That seems to be saying they're the perfect family dog and we're bred as such. They do look scary

Were not we're

@Indoctro "Staffies are slowly but surely no longer the breed being blamed .. there days of been targeted by the media are over and the new dog is now XL Bully and American bull dogs.

Soon Staffies will join the GSD, Doberman etc that used to be the dangerous dogs."

ALL these breeds you mention are bloody dangerous and if any of them decide to attack, a human does not stand a chance. Also add Rottweilers to that list.

What's the point in having a dog that is much more powerful than you and that you stand no chance of controlling if it flips?!

@Eeksteek

It IS the breed. Labs and spaniels are bred to like being with people, to listen, to have weak mouths, to enjoy touch. Hundreds of generations of the survival of the soppiest! Fighting breeds were bred to react with aggression, to attack in a frenzy, to be wound up, to hold on with a crushing bite. If a lab snaps (generally out of fear and anxiety because it’s been poorly raised or it’s needs are not met) it snaps, and then runs away to safety, or can be pulled off. It will let go if hurt. It snaps in its own defence, because it doesn’t have hundreds of generations of being bred to strengthen its desire and ability to fight and attack. Fighting breeds have a much higher chance of reacting like this, and a much higher risk of causing terrible injuries if they do. It’s not their fault, and good training and a healthy environment can certainly produce good individual dogs. But that isn’t the same as saying they don’t a higher risk of killing or maiming as a breed.

Genes load the gun. The environment only pulls the trigger. Labs etc come with rubber bullets and safety catches. Fighting breeds are armour piercing rounds with hair triggers. The might not fire, but they kill if they do. All dogs can be dangerous, but big powerful, fighting dogs are the most dangerous, most often. Having one at all is quite a responsibility, but having one around a child is an unacceptable risk snd should absolutely have to consequences to stop other people taking the same risks. It’s what we do with any other child neglect, to deter other parents from making the same poor parenting decisions. The parents would face charges if the child had been accidentally killed or injured by any other weapon, because weapons shouldn’t be near children.

Exactly this

Why?
Why in the whole gigantic world of dogs did you want one with that genetic mix?

That bully breed is the epitome of the strong, vicious dog that I would go out of my way to avoid - it looks threatening in all the photos I've seen. I can't understand why anyone would even consider getting one of those, regardless of whether they had children. Someone with children getting one is mad.

Im a big dog lover and deliberately and consciously chose to raise a puppy and a baby together.

I support the dangerous dogs act.

I agree that you do get genuinely lovely and trustworthy individuals in each breed but I don’t see how you can read this list and not see why the banned breeds are banned

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_Kingdom

I would go as far as to say that all dogs over a certain weight bracket should be regulated as people who want them for aggressive reasons are drawn to them and the bigger the dogs are harder to fight off.
Yes there is one Jack Russel on that list but there were several Rottweilers and I know which I’d rather being trying to protect my kid from in the park or my home let’s be straight!

Met several lovely Rottweilers for sure but I don’t think just any muppet should have one

@montysma1

It is both.

Yes a badly trained Yorkie is a nippy little shit. But it they don't kill people. Bull breeds do. Regularly.
These breeds are weapons bought as weird status symbols by idiots.

Bull breeds is such a sweeping statement

French bull dogs
Boston terriers
Boxers
Staffordshire bull terries
Pug
Great Dane

Are just some examples, the list is extensive

All very different dogs.

[quote caecilius1]@Eeksteek
Are you joking re Akita's jaw strength?
An Akita's jaw strength is equivalent to a bull mastiff / cane corsa. There's a reason they're the drug dealer's dog of choice. [/quote]
As in bite pressure or shaking force? Fighting dogs just don’t let go. They were bred for it, and they were bred not to listen, not to live in homes or be loyal to people or even a pack. I’m not saying they always attack, but they are predisposed to it by generations of breeding to live in a shed and kill things.

I have beagles. They’re pets and they’re daft. But they go after scent trails, and don’t come back. In fact, they expect me to find them when they call me and praise them. Because what they were bred to do. Breed matters. Fighting dogs were bred to maul things. So they do. Akitas are hunting dogs, so they were at least bred to collaborate with people. Aggressive or uncontrollable traits would have been weeded out. But in fighting dogs it was bred IN as desirable. So it’s much more likely to be a problem.

@Planetbippop

I think the issue in this case is, not enough checks undertaken into the owners or the history of the dog. How do you buy a dog & then the owners need to be tracked down 🤔

For me, I cannot get my head around how a dog that's only be known for a week, was around a child of this age. A truly heartbreaking outcome.

Unfortunately this is a recurring scenario in fatal dog attacks - an adult dog with little or no known history, new to the home and allowed to be around small children. I'm not against families with small children getting dogs but this is the most dangerous scenario imaginable. Throwing a dog from who knows what background, that may never have been around children in its life, into a new environment, and inevitably a noisy and stressful one with kids involved. It is a recipe for disaster and in this case the worse disaster.

@Eeksteek

It IS the breed. Labs and spaniels are bred to like being with people, to listen, to have weak mouths, to enjoy touch. Hundreds of generations of the survival of the soppiest! Fighting breeds were bred to react with aggression, to attack in a frenzy, to be wound up, to hold on with a crushing bite. If a lab snaps (generally out of fear and anxiety because it’s been poorly raised or it’s needs are not met) it snaps, and then runs away to safety, or can be pulled off. It will let go if hurt. It snaps in its own defence, because it doesn’t have hundreds of generations of being bred to strengthen its desire and ability to fight and attack. Fighting breeds have a much higher chance of reacting like this, and a much higher risk of causing terrible injuries if they do. It’s not their fault, and good training and a healthy environment can certainly produce good individual dogs. But that isn’t the same as saying they don’t a higher risk of killing or maiming as a breed.

Genes load the gun. The environment only pulls the trigger. Labs etc come with rubber bullets and safety catches. Fighting breeds are armour piercing rounds with hair triggers. The might not fire, but they kill if they do. All dogs can be dangerous, but big powerful, fighting dogs are the most dangerous, most often. Having one at all is quite a responsibility, but having one around a child is an unacceptable risk snd should absolutely have to consequences to stop other people taking the same risks. It’s what we do with any other child neglect, to deter other parents from making the same poor parenting decisions. The parents would face charges if the child had been accidentally killed or injured by any other weapon, because weapons shouldn’t be near children.

Best post on this thread. Dog breeds are typically bred to do certain things. ((Fighting other dogs being one of them.....)

9xl bully pups for sale near me. 5k each that's a staggering price

Jack Russells are actually my least favourite breed. All the ones I have met have been evil bitey little monsters, but I would take my chances with a Jack Russell over a Rottweiler any day!!

"137 deaths from shark attacks (Australia) in 2021 alone."
Goodness knows where you got that figure from but it is wildly inaccurate. The fatal shark attack total for Australia in the last 10 years is 14 total.

[quote XelaM]@Indoctro "Staffies are slowly but surely no longer the breed being blamed .. there days of been targeted by the media are over and the new dog is now XL Bully and American bull dogs.

Soon Staffies will join the GSD, Doberman etc that used to be the dangerous dogs."

ALL these breeds you mention are bloody dangerous and if any of them decide to attack, a human does not stand a chance. Also add Rottweilers to that list.

What's the point in having a dog that is much more powerful than you and that you stand no chance of controlling if it flips?![/quote]
Any dog over 30kg a human would struggle to contain if it went full blown attack. That's a lot of different breeds falling into that category

I agree with the poster who mentioned weight.

A dogs weight has a lot to do with how powerful it is. The heavier the dog the harder to control if it loses its rag.

@Unsurprised456

It’s the upbringing not the breed

Upbringing is only a part of the problem. It's the physical size, build, sheer strength and potential capability to cause injury or death that's the real issue.

Once again I'm horrified at the tragic death of another child.

@Indoctro Pugs are not considered a "bull breed". We have one he's the gentlest little creature

@drpet49 that sums it up perfectly.

You don't hear of well bred staffies, in decent loving homes attacking children.

It's always the same type of home and they go for the same type of dog. Big and mean looking. They buy it off the internet, knowing nothing of its history and place it in a family with kids.

@Eeksteek beagles are not pets

They are working dogs bred to hunt. They are bred to find and kill animals.

No difference to a dog bred to fight and kill really. Both designed to kill.

In the US the shelters are full of pit bull mixes. Most people wouldn’t want one. There was an incident nearby where a pit attacked and killed a smaller dog. It was cornered by police who shot and killed it because it was trying to attack them. Unfortunately it seems to be a pattern that criminal types and macho men like to own those dogs.