Page 24 | Dogs… To think it doesn’t matter whether it’s a legal breed or not?!

MsWalterMitty · 2022-03-24T19:44:27+00:00

Just read about the recent child death in St Helen’s. It’s so awful! The breed of dog has been released and it turns out it’s not an illegal breed. It’s called an American Bully XL, never heard of it so I googled it, even though I had an idea what it might look like due to its name. Surely, whether it’s legal or not, this dog seems like a really stupid choice for a family!

Strictlyfanoftenyears · 28/03/2022 23:34

@Whatafustercluck

Incidentally, the dog described in this incident was not in fact a breed bred for fighting. Instead it is a breed that has had the aggressiveness purposely bred out of it to make them docile family pets. A quick Google reveals a temperament that is exactly the kind of character that fits in well with family life - playful, affectionate, soft etc.

I suspect this dog, like many others of all varieties, may have had behavioural problems due to how it's been handled and raised. I don't think the family owned it from a puppy, and this is one reason why I'd hesitate to get a rescue dog as a family pet.

It's not the breed, it's how they've been handled. Staffies have a terrible reputation but are nicknamed the nanny dog due to how great they are with children. I've met many wonderful staffies and always make a big fuss of them, they're so full of character. But would I get an adult.one from a rescue centre? Not in a million years.

A quick google also says that these dogs should have pronged collars! (doesnt sound like family pet to me.)

Strictlyfanoftenyears · 28/03/2022 23:36

@hookiewookie29

I'm a childminder. I have a Staffy. The most gorgeous, laid back, adorable dog ever. He loves the children, they love him. I don't keep them apart because he's been brought up with the children from the age of 8 weeks and they know how to behave around him. He takes himself off upstairs if he needs a bit of peace. None of the families were concerned about us getting a Staffy, in fact they were all over the moon. Most of them have, or have had, dogs. One family have a nephew who had his cheek biten off by a Jack Russell. Another has 2 rescue Greyhounds who have to be muzzled. We chose a puppy so he was brought up with my job. Wr would never have considered a rescue dog with the job I have.We had a Staffy years ago and she was fab with our own children when they were young. I hate the bad press Staffies get. When we're out walking he goes off his lead and never bothers with other dogs at all, but we have many dogs who won't leave him alone. It's alright all these people saying " oh, she was bitten by a poodle but it's ok....." No it's not ok- its a dog bite. It would be a whole different story if it was a Bull terrier breed....

Wow, I had no idea that childminders would be allowed to have the dog mix with other peoples children.

sinpola · 29/03/2022 01:41

@Strictlyfanoftenyears I love Staffies but didn't think kids would be great around them because I don't trust my own kids. They can't not annoy them and when dogs snap it's because the kids are being their annoying selves

user3837313202 · 29/03/2022 07:34

A quick google also says that these dogs should have pronged collars! (doesnt sound like family pet to me.)

This is why Google shouldn't always be trusted.

Prong collars are a means of inflicting pain upon a dog with ease, and it's a recipe for creating a dog with issues, whatever the breed. No one with any sense - and no reputable dog trainer - thinks prong collars are a good idea.

Toomanylosthours · 29/03/2022 07:42

@catgirl1976

Labs and retrievers? I honestly don’t recall any incidents of them attacking children. Is that actually true?

@catgirl... I always thought retrievers were calm dogs until my dog has recently been attacked by one.

StrawberryStarfish · 29/03/2022 08:57

Labradors can be bastards. My dog has been attacked by two different Labradors in two separate incidents

Strictlyfanoftenyears · 29/03/2022 09:19

@user3837313202

A quick google also says that these dogs should have pronged collars! (doesnt sound like family pet to me.)

This is why Google shouldn't always be trusted.

Prong collars are a means of inflicting pain upon a dog with ease, and it's a recipe for creating a dog with issues, whatever the breed. No one with any sense - and no reputable dog trainer - thinks prong collars are a good idea.

I know what a pronged collar is............. This description is from a different site:

www.dogbreedinfo.com/a/americanbully.htm

SamphiretheStickerist · 29/03/2022 09:21

A quick google also says that these dogs should have pronged collars!

Fuck that. No dog should have one of those barbarous devices. That's a very American frame of mind. Scare a powerful dog into submission. Hurt it if it moves wrong!

Nope!

Indoctro · 29/03/2022 09:23

@StrawberryStarfish

Labradors can be bastards. My dog has been attacked by two different Labradors in two separate incidents

Snap. My 14 month old staffy has been attacked twice now by off the lead Labs. While he was on the lead.

The first one was a very vicious attack and even after I managed to get my dog up in my arms, the Lab was launching itself at me trying to grab/ bite my dog even though I was screaming at it and kicking it away, this went on for about 2/3 minutes and the owner couldn't get control of it. I was very lucky not to be injured by it.

Second attack wasn't as intense , but it still ran over and just flew into my dog.

I'm extremely wary of Labs.

Strictlyfanoftenyears · 29/03/2022 09:26

As I was saying, if breeders in USA are suggesting that bullys need a pronged collar then I suggest that they are not a family dog........

user3837313202 · 29/03/2022 09:34

I know what a pronged collar is............. This description is from a different site: www.dogbreedinfo.com/a/americanbully.htm

That website is advocating junk science - specifically, the bit about being a "pack leader"

The original research was based on a different species (wolves) living in an unnatural environment (zoo) and an unnatural grouping (lots of unrelated adults) which created conflict.

Then they took what they saw happening between stressed wolves, misinterpreted it, and applied it to human-dog interactions Even the original researcher has denounced his own research.

Then you get the likes of Cesar Millan using bizarre methods to scare a dog into submission, under the guise of being a pack leader (but hey, it makes good "quick fix" TV right?)

Dogs need guidance and boundaries, much like children, but scaring them into submission, or using pain to enforce your will, is counterproductive in the medium to long term.

SamphiretheStickerist · 29/03/2022 09:34

@Strictlyfanoftenyears

As I was saying, if breeders in USA are suggesting that bullys need a pronged collar then I suggest that they are not a family dog........

You have no idea! Shock and prong collars are legal in the US and are preferred by those who don't have time for more patient training methods. They use them on any dog... picture from a large 'Training University" one of many!

They are not necessary. They are easier, quicker and, as long as the dog always wears one, will work because the dog is scared and hurt. Not a good thing to do to any dog, let alone a larger one.

ANY dog forced to behave by the constant use of one of those collars is guaranteed to be less reliable, more likely to react. They cure no behaviour, they mask it, and cause a lot of pain and suffering.

Dogs… To think it doesn’t matter whether it’s a legal breed or not?!

user3837313202 · 29/03/2022 09:35

@Strictlyfanoftenyears

As I was saying, if breeders in USA are suggesting that bullys need a pronged collar then I suggest that they are not a family dog........

I suggest that it says more about the breeders than the dogs.

SamphiretheStickerist · 29/03/2022 09:36

Picture of a prong collar off a dog. The prongs stick into the dog's neck all the time, harder if the dog moves out of sync with the owner.

Indoctro · 29/03/2022 09:44

@Strictlyfanoftenyears

As I was saying, if breeders in USA are suggesting that bullys need a pronged collar then I suggest that they are not a family dog........

USA also think we should all have a gun in our pocket too

I wouldn't listen to a word any of them idiots say. When it comes to being sensible, Americans seriously lack.

Strictlyfanoftenyears · 29/03/2022 10:25

Can I point out that I never suggested anyone should use pronged collars fgs, I was saying that some american bully sites suggest this!

Strictlyfanoftenyears · 29/03/2022 10:28

The same (American) site that says use pronged collars are also suggesting that they are family dogs, posters are missing my point that the two dont go together (not that pronged bloody collars should be used) ..... Of course Im not saying that they are right!

Strictlyfanoftenyears · 29/03/2022 10:30

So once again Family dog with pronged collar suggestion doesnt add up, that was my point!

tabulahrasa · 29/03/2022 10:58

@Strictlyfanoftenyears

So once again Family dog with pronged collar suggestion doesnt add up, that was my point!

I can understand why you’d think that... but...

There are some really backwards things about American dog culture, though I’m going to point out that there are plenty of more modern trainers/breeders and owners over there and plenty of people over here that have very odd old views about dogs too, but in general the standard accepted practices here are ahead of America.

There are people who just routinely put prong collars or shock collars on lots of breeds - IMO it seems to be a look, my dog is so strong it needs this, look at me with my strong dog... which is ridiculous because a lot of the breeds they say need a prong collar are the most trainable breeds that exist. If you actually needed a prong collar, it’s because you have literally no idea how to train a dog.

It’s basically a fashion thing, not because they’d actually be unmanageable without one.

Questiontellme · 29/03/2022 11:43

Incidences of fatal or dog attacks requiring hiaoutak admission in the rise recent peer reviewed research is showing. Good feature on Radio 5 Live now with Naga Munchety

Questiontellme · 29/03/2022 11:49

@LexMitior yep, but it's not about that. @user3837313202 is using classic whataboutery tactics to divert attention away from the issue being discussed.

Not one ounce of empathy towards the child victims being discussed in this thread from user387. The children in the Midlands are still in intesive care. Only diversionary tactics and moving on to needs of dogs, this would be bad enough but then we have the also frankly disgusting and borderline psychopathic but sadly classic blaming the child victim 'dogs need guidance and boundaries just like children' always the child's fault isn't.

Questiontellme · 29/03/2022 11:51

Reconcinfirming of the law also on the FiveLive feature - if somone is frightened by your dogs actions YOU HAVE broken the law. It is not up to you and there is no stipulation in law it is all about the other person.

user3837313202 · 29/03/2022 11:52

@Questiontellme

Incidences of fatal or dog attacks requiring hiaoutak admission in the rise recent peer reviewed research is showing. Good feature on Radio 5 Live now with Naga Munchety

I've not heard the radio piece but there has been a huge increase in the number of dogs in the last 2 years in the UK (I think I saw a statistic saying 9m up to 12m?)

So - even if the breeds chosen were the same as before, even if training and socialisation was unaffected by lockdown (it wasn't) and everything else remained the same except there are more dogs... you'd still expect serious dog attacks to rise by a third simply because there's more dogs out there, more dog-human interactions and so on.

Questiontellme · 29/03/2022 11:54

@user3837313202 the reasrched covered 20 years

tabulahrasa · 29/03/2022 13:25

“frankly disgusting and borderline psychopathic but sadly classic blaming the child victim 'dogs need guidance and boundaries just like children' always the child's fault isn't.”

How did you get that from the post you’re quoting?