Dogs… To think it doesn’t matter whether it’s a legal breed or not?!

[MsWalterMitty]

Just read about the recent child death in St Helen’s. It’s so awful!

The breed of dog has been released and it turns out it’s not an illegal breed. It’s called an American Bully XL, never heard of it so I googled it, even though I had an idea what it might look like due to its name.

Surely, whether it’s legal or not, this dog seems like a really stupid choice for a family!

@Indoctro

I’ve met many lovely and well trained SBTs and other breeds mentioned on here. I just don’t understand why you’d take the risk if you had small children to have a dog that has the potential to kill due to their sheer size. For me, it’s an unnecessary risk for the sake of a pet. I need to cross the road with my children and know there is a risk I could be hit my a car. But I need to cross the road to leave my home and I don’t need a huge dog while my children are little.

As has already been stated the sort of people who shouldn’t own these sorts of dogs are all too often to ones who are so keen to have them.

Too many people in general don’t consider the needs of the breed they’re buying. I absolutely love Hungarian Vizslas but I cannot provide the sort of exercise they require. I think that Cane Corso’s are very attractive animals, i would never own a dog that could at adult size, outweigh me never mind my, or indeed any other child. I couldn’t own a dog that could become uncontrollable and kill someone.

So I got a lapdog, bred to be a companion, small and sweet natured. He’s a delightful little dog.

Maybe in the future I may own a Vizsla but my lifestyle would have to be dramatically different to what it is now.

I don’t understand why so few people seem to consider the dogs needs when they get one. An hour (for example) of exercise a day just isn’t going to cut it for a lot of breeds, family favourites like labs included. Jack Russell Terriers have a bad rep because once they stopped being used as working dogs, they were treated like lapdog pets and that quite simply isn’t what they were bred for. They’re small dogs with a lot of energy and need to be occupied.

Whilst people have always owned big dogs etc they didn’t have them in their houses, around their children, as the family pet. They were working dogs. This is why issues with dogs are increasing, people are fundamentally not understanding what hundreds of years of breeding has hardwired into each and every breed.

@Mickarooni

Because your idea of risk will be different to the next person

I have a 17kg SBT , which I purposely got due to there good nature with kids. I got him as a puppy and have spend hundreds of hours training him he is extremely well trained, he does canicross, scent classes and agility. I believe the risk of him attacking my kids is way less than many other dogs I know in family homes because he needs are fully met, his mind is stimulated daily through scent work and he has a outlet for him energy because he runs every day with and he goes to agility weekly. Yet me neighbour has a scared spaniel in her garden that gets walked round the village , to me that's a accident waiting to happen and I don't allow my kids near it, yet her husband told me he would never own a staffy as they are dangerous and I'm looking at him thinking you plonker. He is totally oblivious to the fact his under stimulated, fearful dog is very risky to his kids.

I allow my kids to fly about on Quad bikes yet my sister thinks it's dangerous and risky, she on the other hand has pony's for her kids which to me is risky

Everyone has a different view on risk and what's acceptable to them.

All dogs have capability of being dangerous, it's not the breed necessarily

This is true; however a certain type of owner want pitbull-types above all else, and they're not always the sort who'll take responsibility for training the dog or for having it around children

I feel no sympathy for the parents, they were reckless and idiotic for buying a dog like that with a toddler, they are fully responsible for her death.

I only feel sorry for that poor little girl and what she must have suffered.

This obsession with dogs the country seems to have is ridiculous and people need to get a grip and realise how dangerous any dog can be especially with children.

@MyWinterRose
That's so harsh. Yes the parents are very foolish, but they'll have to live with that for the rest of their lives.

@Indoctro

I did try to express that this is “for me” and my opinion. I don’t expect and never expressed that everyone should feel the same way. Equally, owners of large, strong breeds have to realise many people are unwilling to let their kid or dog near them. I’ve seen dog owners get offended but it’s their problem, not mine.

Life is inherently a risk and we need to teach our children to live with and manage risk. We cannot and should not be eliminating risks but we can reduce them. If you want a dog and have a 2 year old, I would say it’s more sensible to buy a small breed puppy i.e. a bichon frise from a decent breeder than ‘rescue’ a 3 year old American bully from a mate down the pub.

How can people say “it’s not the breed” when its always the same breeds in these attacks??!

[quote caecilius1]@MyWinterRose
That's so harsh. Yes the parents are very foolish, but they'll have to live with that for the rest of their lives. [/quote]
Its more than foolish though isn't it, although I am positive they wouldn't have bought it had they known what it would do, ultimately their decision to get a dog for 'buttons' and let it into their home with their children directly caused her death. Perhaps if it was punishable beyond they'll have to live with their crappy decison people would think more before doing it, after all its not them who has paid the biggest price is it.

The parents were reckless and they will have to live with the consequences of their stupidity absolutely no risk assessments considered or they wouldn't have bought the dog.
My sympathy is with the DC who lost their life.

I agree a small child and a new, adult dog, with an unknown temperament, are a bad mix. One cat charity I tried to rehome a cat from, said I was unsuitable, as they don't rehome where there's a child in the family under 7, in case the kid would spook the cat, and the cat would claw the kid.

It angers me the DM is the administrator on the go fund me for the poor DC.

I'd hide forever in her position.

I agree it should be a punishable offense for adults who choose to have a dog around children if something like this happens. Poor litte sweetheart bless her, what a waste of a life.

The fear she must have felt in her last moments.

@EmeraldShamrock1

It angers me the DM is the administrator on the go fund me for the poor DC.

I'd hide forever in her position.

Reminds me of some other parents who also made a poor decision re. risk posed to their children, who still don’t know what happened to their child. They certainly didn’t hide forever - paid off their mortgage with donated funds. Of course different rules apply to professional people.

[quote caecilius1]@MyWinterRose
That's so harsh. Yes the parents are very foolish, but they'll have to live with that for the rest of their lives. [/quote]
I don't think it's harsh, I think the parents should face criminal charges for buying a clearly dangerous animal and leaving it with the child unattended which caused her death.

Can you even imagine what that little girl went through? I don't even know how those neglectful parents can live with themselves!

@EvilGoldfish

I had a thread on here late last year about discovering my puppy was a ‘banned breed’. She was the sweetest, most intelligent dog I’ve ever met. Sadly (the circumstances are on the thread) we could not keep her. I was willing to upsize the house in to a cheaper area, but the behavioural problem she had needed far more experience than I had (and no vulnerable people around her - ever)

She went to an amazing rescue while still very young, straight into an experienced with large bull breeds foster home with no dc and a huge amount of land. She has now been officially adopted by them and is a wonderful, happy and loving dog.

BUT that is only because:

A) She is in a home with a very large house/extra land.

B) She is with very experienced owners who have handled large bull breeds before, and has had professional behaviourist support since five months old (provided by the rescue).

C) She is able to live in a place with no vulnerable people or stranger coming in and out. She’ll never live/be in the same room as children or the elderly.

I regret giving her up every single day and keep up to date with her progress. But I also know that if she had stayed with us in our circumstances (a family with young dc, in a smal terraced house, with visitors coming and going) then she would probably have attacked, maybe killed someone.

She must have an entire litter out there that may have inherited this behavioural problem, and I dread to think where she would be if we had just sold her on.

Why did you get her in the first place @EvilGoldfish genuine question?

@ronjobbins I’ve copy/pasted this from my previous thread.

‘I know we should have done things properly to start with but my heart completely over ruled my head

We were on a waiting list for a Staffordshire bull terrier puppy, when my niece told me of a family she knew giving their 10 week old staffy female away as they couldn’t cope.

I went with full intentions of taking her to a local rescue as the details sounded dodgy (no microchip, no vaccinations, no contact details for who sold her to them) but I couldn’t bear the thought of her being picked duo as a bait dog. They had her in a tiny cat cage, no toys/bed and on adult butchers food. The first thing she did when they let her out was run up for a belly rub.

Obviously, she is completely adorable and I ended up taking her to the vets to be chipped, 1st vaccinations and to get checked over.

I know all puppy owners can say this but she is so responsive to positive training, loving and eager to please. She has only had two accidents in the four weeks we’ve had her, she sleeps at the foot of our bed and usually only needs to get up once in the night. Her little tail wags like crazy the second she sees anyone, including strangers and other dogs (dogs from a distance as her second vaccination is next week) but especially children. We are starting KC puppy scheme classes in a few weeks.’

@Indoctro

Worst I see was a young child who was in the surgical ward when my son was there, his face had been ripped open by a miniature poodle. It was a horrendous state and he definitely was going to be left badly scarred. He was just over 2 years old.

This is genuinely awful, that poor little boy.

If the dog involved in the same attack on that part of his body had been a controversial breed with hugely strong jaws and bodies, for example the one mentioned by op, that boy would almost certainly have died.

[quote Dontcallmebabylalala]@Bloodybridget
Agree wholeheartedly.
These parents KNEW what they are doing buying a fighter dog that is heavy, big, dangerous, designed for mauling and killing. I am a dog lover but I can’t breath properly if this kind of a dog is coming within 100 m distance from my child. My instincts kick right in, my children’s safety is absolutely paramount. I have ZERO idea of what’s in this dog’s head. Why did they HAVE to have a dog like that?
We safeguard our children, protect them from harm, we are questioned by schools for a random bruise appeared on our childrens body, we are charged for neglect leaving children unattended at home if the accident happens, but apparently having such a dangerous creature at home is fine?! How is this ok? How is this allowed? I agree that ANY dog can bite, but not every dog has such a great potential to kill.
This whataboutery about comparing risks has to STOP immediately. It was a completely preventable death. It was a direct consequence of parental decisions. It’s not an accident. They should be charged. They will never experience what their poor child went through.[/quote]
Well said

Dd got bitten on the face by a dog. She was lucky not to lose her sight, the bite was so close to her eye. It wasn't my sister's soft-as-shit staffie that did it to her but a small yappie little thing. It's the ones with small dog syndrome you have to watch. A bit like history's dictators.

@Whatafustercluck

Dd got bitten on the face by a dog. She was lucky not to lose her sight, the bite was so close to her eye. It wasn't my sister's soft-as-shit staffie that did it to her but a small yappie little thing. It's the ones with small dog syndrome you have to watch. A bit like history's dictators.

But the point I think is that if the same incident happened but the dog was a larger breed with a strong jaw and an instinct to lock on and not let go, that injury would likely have been death or at least far worse injuries. It's not about individual dogs when it comes to risk assessment.

Your poor DD though I'm sorry she (and you) went through that and glad to hear her sight was saved

Incidentally, the dog described in this incident was not in fact a breed bred for fighting. Instead it is a breed that has had the aggressiveness purposely bred out of it to make them docile family pets. A quick Google reveals a temperament that is exactly the kind of character that fits in well with family life - playful, affectionate, soft etc.

I suspect this dog, like many others of all varieties, may have had behavioural problems due to how it's been handled and raised. I don't think the family owned it from a puppy, and this is one reason why I'd hesitate to get a rescue dog as a family pet.

It's not the breed, it's how they've been handled. Staffies have a terrible reputation but are nicknamed the nanny dog due to how great they are with children. I've met many wonderful staffies and always make a big fuss of them, they're so full of character. But would I get an adult.one from a rescue centre? Not in a million years.

@Whatafustercluck

Dd got bitten on the face by a dog. She was lucky not to lose her sight, the bite was so close to her eye. It wasn't my sister's soft-as-shit staffie that did it to her but a small yappie little thing. It's the ones with small dog syndrome you have to watch. A bit like history's dictators.

Yes, small dog syndrome. I know someone who got their hand mauled by a chihuahua. I have known a lot of people with a lot of different breeds of dogs, and the toy/small breeds are the worse. It seems a lot of people with small dogs don't bother training shit behaviour out of them as they are "too small" to cause any damage. Jumping up is seen as cute.. when in a big dog, you would actively seek to discourage it as it can knock someone over.