To be utterly sick of toxic positivity?

[Goldenbunnies]

Over the last 4 years, I have had some of the most difficult and painful experiences of my life. A close family member passed away, I had a cancer scare which required surgery, ex DP cheated on me while I was pregnant, then abandoned me and DC when I ended things and witheld money for DC (dodger maintenance by being ‘self employed’), I had a bad episode of depression and gained 50lbs which I’m trying really hard to lose.

Despite all this, anyone I have opened up to about how difficult the last few years have been have had the same sort of response - everything happens for a reason, try not to dwell on the negatives, don’t you feel grateful to have healthy DC. I know people say these things with good intentions but I find it so deflating. Social media is awash with the same sort of stuff.

AIBU to feel fed up with it and just want to be able to acknowledge that the past few years of my life have been pretty shit?

"everything happens for a reason" is such a weirdly egotistical way to look at life too, isn't it. Like if your beloved grandmother is run over by a bus in front of you, maybe yes in the long term of "your story" it'll make you realise how resilient you can be etc etc, but she's still going to be dead so it's pretty shit for her. There seems to be an idea that bad things happening to those around you are just there to be a learning experience for you, which is pretty bananas and madly self-centred as a way to think about life.

@Relentlessrose you're a beautiful writer, I hope you get to use that in your life

Sometimes it's not always "toxic positivity" though. Once a person has validated your feelings and supported and empathised with you, how long do you carry on without moving forward? Some people do get stuck in grief and others do negatively ruminate for years upon a perceived misjustice or take every opportunity to trauma dump on their loved ones whilst trying to process their own emotions (i'm not talking about you op).

There is some truth in this.

I basically agree with you OP that its very difficult when people won't simply acknowledge your pain, as opposed to trying to "fix" it or putting a positive gloss on it.

But there is also a tendency for people sometimes to allow this to become a reason not to move forwards and to get stuck in a negative feedback loop about their own life. With very painful emotions its sometimes quite a thin line between allowing yourself to experience the pain and injustice and enabling yourself to move past it.

There does come a point where acknowledging can tip over into enabling someone to endlessly go over shit stuff that's happened and develop a very fixed mindset. I'm not saying this applies in your case.

Its hard to know from what you've said how much you've talked about this to particular individuals but its possible that some of them feel quite burdened by this.

I do think that if you find yourself particularly "stuck" on one painful trigger event its probably more useful to talk to a professional about it than someone you know really well.

I don't mean to diminish what you've been through or to suggest that you don't deserve sympathy and a listening ear. I just think that often lay people such as friends and family are more limited in our ability to support people going through trauma than is acknowledged.

You have to recognise a few things.

Not everybody wishes to hear other people's negativity for a whole manner of reasons. And that's OK.

People approach things in very different ways. I'm not the friend to just offload to because I find it irritating. And my friends know and recognise that. I'm the friend who'll listen and then ask what you're doing to improve it. I'll give good advice, but I can only tolerate moaning for so long.

And generally speaking, people probably don't know how to respond, so give some stock answers intended to show support.

I'm sorry life has been a bit lousy. There's absolutely nothing wrong with acknowledging that you've had it tough. But you're also choosing to keep your focus on that and have to accept that people's willingness to absorb your negativity will start to run dry!

My parent is dying of MND. My parent's siblings and others close to the family think that positive thinking can make them better.

There is no getting better. Things will never improve, my parent is slowly suffocating to death because the muscles in their body are failing daily.

What my parents, my siblings and I are trying to do is focus on the positives of dignity and comfort. This is not remotely helped by "positive thinkers" telling us we're wrong for concentrating on dying in the best possible way rather than a cure!

Thankfully I have friends and colleagues who appreciate it's a shit storm, they offer support, a place to vent and occasional black humour to get me through each new development. No wallowing, but no insipid positivity trying to make me feel even more shit about what's happening.

Toxic positivity and it's fans can fuck off to a dark corner and stay there.

I agree, but I think people sometimes don't know what to say when someone is relentlessly negative, even for a good reason. Perhaps they are going through their own shit and don't want to dwell on it.

I wouldnt say it’s toxic positivity more a complete disregard and invalidation of your feelings.

You are completely allowed to feel blessed around some things in your life (DC) but also to be overwhelmed, sad and angry for other things.

It’s my biggest pet peeve is invalidating peoples emotions and I always try to call people out on it. Your feelings are valid and you have been through a really shit time.

I agree sometimes you need to acknowledge that things are just shit. My mum does this all the time and when I actually went through a health scare kept up with those kind of comments. I told her I'd dig deep but the situation was shit and I just wanted her to acknowledge it. Sometimes it is a protective mechanism as acknowledging how ill I actually was scared her.

Hi OP,
I agree. I think it is really important for people to acknowledge when someone is having a truly awful time and (hopefully) offer some sympathy because sometimes as an adult that's all you're after.

However, as someone who has also had/having a pretty rubbish time re: family multiple health woes over the past few years it does make me feel better if I remind myself things could be worse and are worse for a lot of people. but that's coming from me. I'd feel a bit patronised if I was hearing it from other people :)

I’m getting sick of people not understanding what toxic positivity is tbh.
It’s not toxic to attempt to change
the way you see or think about something. It’s the basis of pretty much every successful therapy known to man. No one will become happier wallowing in their own misery and it’s not toxic to point that out. No-one is saying you can’t find
It hard or struggle.

@HopefulProcrastinator I'm so sorry to hear what you are all going through as a family.

I was just coming on here to say wait til you or your partner are terminally ill and then you hear all the toxic positivity possible (have you tried combatting the cancer by imagining the white cells beating the bad ones?; never give up hope!; have you thought of running a marathon said to bed-bound terminally ill person; you can think yourself better; endless 'cures' sent to you by email even when it's absolutely clear it's terminal). There's an absolute unwillingness to acknowledge that death happens, is happening to that person, and that it would be better to just acknowledge that frankly- because, ironically, whilst you are in deep denial and fear, you can't enjoy those last weeks or months anyway. I found once you just face what's happening, instead of fake hope, there's more potential to enjoy a sunrise, or sit together holding hands, than give yet another pep talk which is ultimately meaningless.

So, I hear you.

On the bright side, I know all the things that were said, sent and done in the name of positivity were done with love and because they wanted to fix the problem. It was a bit relentless though trying to explain why you wouldn't be flying to X country to have Y totally irrelevant and not suitable surgery/enemas/crazy non-proven treatment, as if you just really really tried hard you could actually define death and avoid it altogether.

I’m doing CBT at the moment and funnily enough my therapist mentioned a few weeks ago that while it used to be The Thing to tell people to look on the bright side, be endlessly positive, fake it till you make it kind of bullshit they’ve realised that it’s much better to get people to accept that bad things happen and give them the tools to deal with it. It’s true that sitting feeling sorry for yourself just makes you feel worse, but equally singing a happy song doesn’t just fix it either.

I don't really understand what people get from having their struggles acknowledged by friends but each to their own.

It feels quite rude to me in some way to just say 'yes your life is shit'. It's also a conversation killer as these negative types often don't want to hear solutions or positive comments. So what else is there to say?

You know life is hard right now, so why do you want someone to repeat that back to you?

I find it is the same with people that want to lose weight but can't be bothered. They love a good whinge but don't want to make any lifestyle changes or think positive.

We've all got problems. I avoid negative types as they suck you dry.

@FarFarFarAndAway thank you. Sorry you've been through similar, I'm struggling to see the positive comment people in a remotely positive way at the moment - it feels judgemental and targeted to be honest.

There are ways to be positive without beating people with a great big stick that a positive attitude would make all the difference.

Like I said, thankfully I do have such people in my life and I do find laughter and happiness with them amidst this storm but I can't see a near future of being tolerant of the ones claiming we're being ignorant to the power of positivity.

100% agree OP it's shit. Having been through cancer treatment I got dealt my fair share of toxic positivity e.g. 'You have to stay positive otherwise you're letting the cancer win'. Ffs. I've found some great Instagram accounts that talk about TP and generally allow a bit of of a vent if you're having a bad day.

I completely agree. Most people want to be heard and understood and cared about when things are shit.

'Happens for a reason people' are just thick. These are people who are lucky enough that all things have worked out in their life and they lack the intellectual capacity to understand that what has happened in their life will not happen in everyone's life.

Sometimes things are just shit. There is no hidden blessing. They are just things you need to live with.

YANBU OP

What happened to you is grievious, and grief takes time to process. You have to go through all the painful stages (anger, despair, etc.) before you can reach "acceptance". And acceptance is typically NOT "Oh well, what happened to me wasn't that bad actually", it often is "Fucking hell, that was horrible, I'm glad this is in the past now, and I sure wish it doesn't happen again"

Grievious feelings need validation, not gaslighting. But cowards are afraid of pain, even the pain of others, so they always strive to minimise it.
You deserve better.

It feels quite rude to me in some way to just say 'yes your life is shit'. It's also a conversation killer as these negative types often don't want to hear solutions or positive comments. So what else is there to say?

I really disagree that listening properly and repeating back what people have said is a conversation killer. Often people come up with their own solutions if you let them talk, or if they have vented, you can then chat through their thinking, including solutions, after that. No-one says 'yes your life is shit' if they have any tact whatsoever, they say 'that sounds really hard' and then let the person lead the conversation. My friends usually offer a mix: of listening, solutions, and having a laugh, there isn't one thing on offer, and that's what I try to do back with them.

@LizzoBennett

I don't really understand what people get from having their struggles acknowledged by friends but each to their own.

It feels quite rude to me in some way to just say 'yes your life is shit'. It's also a conversation killer as these negative types often don't want to hear solutions or positive comments. So what else is there to say?

You know life is hard right now, so why do you want someone to repeat that back to you?

I find it is the same with people that want to lose weight but can't be bothered. They love a good whinge but don't want to make any lifestyle changes or think positive.

We've all got problems. I avoid negative types as they suck you dry.

Lovely lack of empathy you've got there. So other people only exist to bathe you in their positive energy, otherwise they're a net drain and not worth your time? It's clear you don't have much to offer others.

Which suggests to me you're probably not that good at generating your own positive energy. You don't know how self-soothing works, so can't soothe others.

Am feeling charitable, so here's a clue: "Oh no, I'm sorry this happened to you. This sounds really tough. I hope things get better soon"

It could have been you I have just spent an hour with. Over coffee and cake I have spent that hour agreeing that ex is a total gobshite, weight gain is par for the unhappy course and who really gives a shit? Well ido! And that sometimes death hits you much harder than you expect. And that's shit too.

Friend was so relieved not ot have to put on a brave face she just cried, got angry, cried again and then threw me out as she has work to do

Bollocks to being polite. A friend in need doesn't need bloody Miss Manner Etiquette she needs a shoulder to snot all over!

Toxic Positivity is a brilliant description of it! I could have written this post, thank you OP, you’ve made me feel semi normal!

A few people in my workplace, especially my boss, are like this, everyone has to keep smiling and not be negative no matter what is going on. It’s not even a public facing job, which I could at least understand.

Apparently ‘fake it till you make it’ and ‘just do it’ are the way to go when you are feeling shit.

Sometimes things in life can be shit and its ok to acknowledge that in my opinion instead of being expected to always see the positive in everything X

With this in mind, how would you address sending a (21st) birthday card to my family member who is having a very tough time with her mental health. My tendency was always a 'find how to dance in the rain' type message but now, thanks to conversations like these, I realise how inappropriate and even offensive they can seem.
Currently she is unable to see anyone apart from her next of kin. I do want to acknowledge her birthday but don't know what to say.
Any tips Goldenbunnies or anyone?

@Relentlessrose

I think we are taught from a young age that if somebody has a feeling it always needs some kind of response. So instead of truly listening, we are busy thinking of how to respond. Instead of sitting with them in their dark place, we are busy turning lights on. Instead of letting them process their feelings at their own pace, we are hurrying them to be better. Instead of letting things just be as they are, we find the need to fix everything. Not every feeling needs a response. That person doesn't always need a platitude or a sticking plaster or a cup of tea or a box of tissues. That person may not need a hand hold or a hug or a bit of humour to break the mood. That person may not need you to wrap their problems up in pretty packaging and hand it back to them. They may not need to hear that you have experienced something similar so know how they feel. They don't need you to help them get some gratitude, or some perspective or to be reminded of people who have it worse off than them. There will always be famine, war and disease. There will always be someone worse off than you too, but that does not diminish that persons suffering. Sometimes they do not need a response of any kind, they just need to be heard, to be seen, to know that they are not alone. That you can handle their pain and darkness and sit in it beside them despite the awkward feelings that make them want to shine a light somewhere. Sometimes all people need is for you to be there. To bite your tongue and hold their gaze and let it all flow out of them and all around you. To just be together. That is the greatest gift you can give a friend in pain. To just let them be authentic and open and know they are not alone.

I very much agree with this. Sometimes you just want someone to acknowledge and agree that things are shit. Company while you work through stuff and all that, rather than trying to jolly you on before you've processed.

Thankyou for saying this OP. People find it very difficult to just listen and support, some can't cope and some do care, but feel they must make you feel better and fix things somehow. I'm in my early 50's. My hair is still dark shiney and thick - but I have lost 2 inches of my hairline due to a form of permanent alopecia. My much loved friend of 35 years cheerfully exclaimed that we could find me some fabulous scarves and was very "positively dismissive", when I shared my despair 7 years ago, when it all started. I know she cares, but I don't quite see her the same way, since then. I know that's nothing compared to your experiences OP, but it definately is important to be able to share that things are or have been frankly shit 💐

My God, you are so not wrong! Sick of it also.

I sent a cousin a Hug in a Mug when her mum was detriorating fast.

A plain mug with small chocolates, a large folded pink heart and a hot chocolate sachet in it. Totally inappropriate for a skinny minny who never eats chocolate and is always watching her weight.

She thanked me for being me, knew it was a gift from me as soon as she opened it and that she and her mum had had a smile at my knowing her so well! The mug was a good'un!

Maybe something like that would help you.