To be utterly sick of toxic positivity?

[Goldenbunnies]

Over the last 4 years, I have had some of the most difficult and painful experiences of my life. A close family member passed away, I had a cancer scare which required surgery, ex DP cheated on me while I was pregnant, then abandoned me and DC when I ended things and witheld money for DC (dodger maintenance by being ‘self employed’), I had a bad episode of depression and gained 50lbs which I’m trying really hard to lose.

Despite all this, anyone I have opened up to about how difficult the last few years have been have had the same sort of response - everything happens for a reason, try not to dwell on the negatives, don’t you feel grateful to have healthy DC. I know people say these things with good intentions but I find it so deflating. Social media is awash with the same sort of stuff.

AIBU to feel fed up with it and just want to be able to acknowledge that the past few years of my life have been pretty shit?

You have to be careful who you share with if this bothers you. I do it too and annoy myself with how much I share, but my best friends just listen and console without trying to fix it or make you shut up with platitudes.

It's just people minimising your pain and I don't know why they do it but it's very unhelpful. My m does this the usually turns it around to herself and how much more she suffered when she had that situation.
No I avoid telling her my woes , I much prefer my best friends reaction of yes that's really crap , do you want to talk about it or shall we just go for a coffee and walk round the shops ?
I don't generally tell many other people stuff unless they ask , I just smile and say yes everything's fine.

OP
I totally get where you are coming from.

It takes a very unique kind of person to be able to just sit with you in whatever crap-ness you are going through in life and just "be" with you without trying to "say" something (which usually ends up being dismissive in some shape or form even if they don't think it is).

I am sorry things have been so tough for you and completely understand how frustrating it must be not to have your experiences acknowledged and understood.

People do often feel awkward when confronted with other people's issues and end up saying something glib, although actually all they need to do is listen and empathise.

I think the 'everything happens for a reason' comment is rubbish but I am guilty of having used it to mean that in the future your life is likely to be better and the losses you have now will be part of the route that gets you there. Which I do believe is likely to be the case.

I hear you and I used to be one of those people, especially to my young adult kids.
I always put on a cheery face and said things like ' never mind , these things happen'
My son said ' mum will you stop being so positive all tbe time. Sometimes I just want to hear you say ' yeah, that does sound shit and you've had a bad time' I dont want everything to be "character building" or " making me stronger", sometimes I need to wallow for a short time.'
He was right. People often need empathy and not someone sounding like a cheerful Facebook meme!

I’m not sure what gave that impression, but it is only people close to me I have opened up to. I would never tell new people such personal stuff

Well you didn't say this, just 'anyone' you open up to.

I'd say talk to a professional councillor who will listen honestly. I'm surprised good friends and family aren't more understanding, but positive platitudes are things people come out with when they don't know what else to say. Maybe they feel helpless? If someone shares with me, I just say I'm so sorry, but also feel the need to 'fix' their misery and maybe say be thankful for the lovely DC.

I have a severely disabled child, had an abusive ex and have lots of other issues. I just don't talk about problems even with good friends, only one or two close family members. I just don't see the point. Obviously everyone has a different way of coping.

It’s incredibly unhelpful and can be extremely hurtful. I have learned that these things are usually said by people who can’t really handle or don’t want to know about upsetting situations so they dismiss with talk of silver linings and ‘at least’s.

True friends and mature adults will acknowledge that when it’s rubbish, it is just rubbish. As at times life can be.

I totally get you . I have two relatives going through very serious illnesses at the moment and another relative who won’t accept the inevitable and always try’s to put a positive spin on everything. It’s driving me crazy . Some people don’t want things sugar coated they want to know the truth .

Also speaking to these relatives like children. They are not, they are adults who are dying and having an extremely difficult time. I think it’s quite patronising not to acknowledge that .

And yet I am being portrayed as being heartless. I am not. I am just trying to be practical and do my best.

I completely understand that other people’s bad times and big feelings can be difficult to deal with. But I think what annoys me about toxic positivity is that it dresses up as being caring and compassionate but is essentially the “stiff upper lip, mustn’t grumble, god moves in mysterious ways” of previous generations, but in pastel. My close friends are more of the “sorry mate that sounds shit” variety which I find more comforting tbh!

@notacooldad

I hear you and I used to be one of those people, especially to my young adult kids. I always put on a cheery face and said things like ' never mind , these things happen' My son said ' mum will you stop being so positive all tbe time. Sometimes I just want to hear you say ' yeah, that does sound shit and you've had a bad time' I dont want everything to be "character building" or " making me stronger", sometimes I need to wallow for a short time.' He was right. People often need empathy and not someone sounding like a cheerful Facebook meme!

Well done your son. I think he is right .

I’m so sorry you’ve had an absolute shit time of it lately.

I absolutely agree, demanding everyone always looks on the bright side is extremely damaging to mental health. We need time to recognise explore, fully experience all aspects of our lives, positive and negative burying shit times under love and light, having your experience undermined by tales of someone in another continent is crap and so damaging.

People do it to trying and make you feel better. But we need to recognise life isn’t all about happiness, it is sometimes about sadness and pain, to feel the full spectrum is what it is to be human, we need to accept and listen to that.

That sounds like a lot to cope with OP, I hope you are ok.

The everything happens for a reason is utter shite though
Tbf it is true - just that sometimes the reason is life is unfair, people behave badly, bad luck can strike anyone. I think it is also important to teach children that life isn't fair - otherwise they will grow up thinking that if they succeed it is entirely due to their own efforts and, conversely, if you are not high-earning you are at fault. There are a lot of people in the government who seem to believe this now!

YANBU. That sounds like a rubbish and very challenging 4 years.
The only thing I will say - and it's not toxic positivity - is you've dealt with nearly half a decade of shit and survived. So acknowledge to yourself that you've done that.
I hope things start to look up soon.

Yep it's toxic.

People need to be heard. When times are tough you need people that supposedly care about you to sit alongside and go "I hear you, I hear your pain".

Having gratitude doesn't make the pain any less painful!!!

My husband can be like this and it’s infuriating/: dismissive patronising and superficial

Op. It sounds like you’ve had an appalling time of it. I have had similar issues in my life over the last three years and it does wear you down when people are so flippant

It’s another form of saying put up and shut up. Be compliant and grateful you’re not dead basically.

AND NEVER GETS SAID TO MEN

This is good stuff - from Brene Brown, about the difference between sympathy and empathy: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1Evwgu369Jw

I think the PP is right though - when someone's own mental health is under strain, it can feel too much to deeply connect with another person's pain. But we tend not to say "I can't cope myself either", instead we try and skim over it all (which helps nobody, but I see myself doing this too).

Does your area have a self-referral thing for therapy, or some places have a specialist MH worker linked to GP surgeries? Of course you need to talk and have someone listen properly, but for whatever reason, your friends aren't able to offer you that right now

I totally get it.

I hate it when people try to label what is a normal response to trauma as 'depression and/or anxiety', stop trying to medicalise normal human emotions.

We also have a skewed attitude to bereavement in this society. It's such a taboo.

We don't seem to teach kids what to say to a traumatised person. We do this positivity thing (back to the old English stiff upper lip) that is toxic. It hinders our healing.

I call people out on it but that just tends to offend them!

True friends and mature adults will acknowledge that when it’s rubbish, it is just rubbish. As at times life can be

Actually I’m just thinking that this seems to be most of my close friends

Everything awful is happening to dd and i am not sure how it can get much worse but everyone ive told (bits of…I’m not telling everybody everything) just feels sorry for her. This maybe because she is my ( adult) child maybe they’d react differently to me

I am so sorry this stuff has happened to you OP 💐

What do you want them to say?

Poor you, hiw awful? So you can wallow?

Almost everyone have had periods in their lives they'd prefer not to have experienced. I know of very few who want to wallow and noone who wants to help them wallow.
I think you're veing unreasonable.

Put another way tell people upfront you don't want them to comment and then allow the conversation yo be changed once you've had your time to say how you feel after what's happened.

It’s another form of saying put up and shut up. Be compliant and grateful you’re not dead basically.

AND NEVER GETS SAID TO MEN

It does actually.
Its often people not knowing how to handle a situation or not wanting to face the facts because they are emotionally hurting.

We knew grandad was dying, he knew he was dying but he was spoken to like he had a splinter in his finger or something and everything would be ok! That was by everyone from HCPs to family.

I think we are taught from a young age that if somebody has a feeling it always needs some kind of response. So instead of truly listening, we are busy thinking of how to respond. Instead of sitting with them in their dark place, we are busy turning lights on. Instead of letting them process their feelings at their own pace, we are hurrying them to be better. Instead of letting things just be as they are, we find the need to fix everything. Not every feeling needs a response. That person doesn't always need a platitude or a sticking plaster or a cup of tea or a box of tissues. That person may not need a hand hold or a hug or a bit of humour to break the mood. That person may not need you to wrap their problems up in pretty packaging and hand it back to them. They may not need to hear that you have experienced something similar so know how they feel. They don't need you to help them get some gratitude, or some perspective or to be reminded of people who have it worse off than them. There will always be famine, war and disease. There will always be someone worse off than you too, but that does not diminish that persons suffering. Sometimes they do not need a response of any kind, they just need to be heard, to be seen, to know that they are not alone. That you can handle their pain and darkness and sit in it beside them despite the awkward feelings that make them want to shine a light somewhere. Sometimes all people need is for you to be there. To bite your tongue and hold their gaze and let it all flow out of them and all around you. To just be together. That is the greatest gift you can give a friend in pain. To just let them be authentic and open and know they are not alone.

I agree OP. I did a counselling course (never qualified but learnt some useful stuff) and one of the things that sticks in my mind was to never say “at least” - e.g. “at least you’ve got your kids”, “at least you didn’t have cancer”. It completely minimises what you’ve been through. If someone had their hand chopped off they wouldn’t be cheered up by thinking at least they’ve got another hand. People need to acknowledge your pain.

Plus I hate that mentality that everything happens for a reason. That is such bullshit. It makes the poor person going through the awful situation think that they somehow deserve it or that the universe or fate or God or whatever has got it in for them. No. Sometimes awful things happen for no reason at all other than a person is very unlucky.

I hope things will start to pick up for you soon OP

I agree. It really resonates with the saying you find out who your friends are when times are bad. Those who are true friends will listen and acknowledge the pain you are in. Those who aren't good friends or at best are fair weather friends will not acknowledge your pain either because they dont want to bother supporting you or because they only want to be there for the fun times.
A lot of people are self centred aswell and are very happy to have you deal with their upset but don't want to reciprocate. I have supported people through extreme episodes or anxiety/depression/grief but when I openly asked for the same support they actually ignored the text message or if it was verbally literally changed the subject.

Just watched the Brene brown video after posting! She said the same thing basically but much more eloquently! Excuse my waffle

I hate toxic positivity so much. Nobody should feel obligated to be happy all the time. Until we feel able to show the full spectrum of human emotions and know that it is safe to do so, mental health problems and trauma will continue to grow. IMO a lot of mental health problems are really about an unmet need. If somebodies need for connection are not met then of course they are going to eventually end up with mental health problems. Because connection is as much a human need as for food, oxygen, water, etc. It's not a luxury, it is so deeply necessary that when we ignore it and create ways to separate ourselves from others and not to connect from them can only lead to deep issues on a personal, societal and global level. And how can we connect when we are seeking methods of division? When instead of acknowledging and sharing our human experience we hide it and pretend to be having a different human experience.

Positivity is not value less if the message is that if you don't feel positive the reason is that you are just not trying hard enough. It is a way to bully and judge others and Create a hierarchy.

I do keep a gratitude journal though 🙈