To be utterly sick of toxic positivity?

[Goldenbunnies]

Over the last 4 years, I have had some of the most difficult and painful experiences of my life. A close family member passed away, I had a cancer scare which required surgery, ex DP cheated on me while I was pregnant, then abandoned me and DC when I ended things and witheld money for DC (dodger maintenance by being ‘self employed’), I had a bad episode of depression and gained 50lbs which I’m trying really hard to lose.

Despite all this, anyone I have opened up to about how difficult the last few years have been have had the same sort of response - everything happens for a reason, try not to dwell on the negatives, don’t you feel grateful to have healthy DC. I know people say these things with good intentions but I find it so deflating. Social media is awash with the same sort of stuff.

AIBU to feel fed up with it and just want to be able to acknowledge that the past few years of my life have been pretty shit?

Everything happens for a reason and that reason is that sometimes life is shit and people are arseholes.

Yes I know what you mean, people don't mean any harm and think its being supportive. I have to admit I said similar to a close friend and fair play to her she said- look I want to be upset, angry, complain about unfair it is and how shit life can be- even if just for this moment. And so even did, and I listened and supported the best I could and have learnt from it. I think some things people don't really know what to say and so default to what they think someone wants to hear.

I think there is also an element that people think that if someone is miserable or unhappy acknowledging it will make it worse. It is the only reason I could think of why the psychiatric crisis mental health team would always state how well my ex was doing, and how well he looked despite being in the middle of a mental health crisis, dosed up to eyeballs on antipsychotics. It made me so angry, they’d stay about 15 mins of a 8 week review and then write up how much better he was despite me and him stating how bloody awful and how desperate we both were.
People just seem to be afraid to acknowledge that some times peoples lives are really really shit,
I agree with other posters comments that some people also say”you are so strong, I couldn’t do that” . Again a completely shut down comment. No one can cope with it. What happens is people under continued stressful events slowly begin to normalise it - it is sheer survival mode and mental resilience. Not something you’re born with, you unfortunately find that there is no other way short of a complete mental breakdown or suicide.
I’m sorry to hear you are in this dreadful situation. And I’m sorry you don’t have someone who really listens to you. One thing you may want to think about is writing down how you feel …all the things you want to say to someone else in terms of your pain, anger, frustration, grief etc. getting it out of your head and onto paper some people do find helpful.

Also, you said you’ve had depression. Antidepressants are useful to help deal with the pain, but they’re a.so difficult to come off.are you trying to come off them currently? Many people find they get worse again while trying to come off and it takes many months to regain equilibrium .

YANBU it's awful.

As a teenager I was taken away from my abusive home including siblings, pets mother etc to live with family in another country.

I was told happiness was in my control, acknowledging my emotions was 'letting them have the power,' sadness equalled hysteria, and anger was 'going off the rails.'

As a result I developed an extreme lack of affect and empathy and learned to suppress all emotion.

Toxic positivity is so, so damaging.

I had a very traumatic birth with my first child and it really broke me emotionally. I knew my mental health was really suffering but also that the 'thing to do' is to open up and tell people how you are feeling.

Every time I tried to speak about my feelings, the response was always something along the lines of 'Well at least you have a healthy baby'. I absolutely felt grateful for having a healthy baby but what I had gone through was terrifying and demoralising and I had flashbacks every day for 12 weeks. I felt like everyone was missing the point. I felt like I had been tortured and needed to deal with that-it had nothing to do with the baby.

I had always been a very 'glass half full' person and pulled out the positivity card. Through me experience, I learned that when someone tells me something I should never reply with a sentence that starts with 'At least...'. I now know how essential it is for someone to say 'That sounds very difficult. I'm sorry you went through that'. Most of the time, most people just want to be heard. Eventually I stopped telling anyone because I couldn't deal with everyone using positivity to shut me up. It was often well meaning, but so damaging.

OP, I totally agree. In the old days people would turn away and avoid you because they didn't want to hear the reality of how horrible things are for you at the moment. Now they do the 'count your blessings/ have you thought of a gratitude journal' number, which actually means 'I don't want to have to listen to what you're going through, just shut up and pretend everything's okay.'

As you say, it's toxic and fake and the people who do it are in denial of the darker side of life.

You might like this book, by a very good American writer who got fed up with the toxic positivity she was surrounded by when she got cancer: www.amazon.co.uk/Smile-Die-Positive-Thinking-America/dp/1847081738?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Absolutely agree! I’m actually thinking of going LC with a relative who believes in this mantra like a religion, that everything is simply about how you react to it and x will happen when it’s the right time etc…he offended me so much last time we spoke and all I wanted was someone to say “god you’ve been through the mill, sorry and I hope it gets better.” Hugely regret sharing any of it.

It’s like a cult almost? Perhaps it’s too scary for these people to admit that there really isn’t control or logic to how life works. But somehow you do survive and carry on. Sorry you’ve had such a shit time of it ❤️

I do agree that these sorts of phrases are unhelpful but I think a PP may be right about it being a way for them to shut down the conversation because they are finding it too much. These people are not trained professionals and it can be overwhelming when somebody opens up to you about such complex issues when you don’t have the skills, training or experience to know how to help or what to say for the best. If someone is wheeling out these sorts of stock phrases then I think it”s a sign that they aren’t equipped to deal with it, rather than assuming they don’t care. I think you should look into professional counselling. It sounds like you need someone to talk to about this who has the training and skills to respond appropriately and help you to work through what has happened to you.

LittleSnakes

I completely agree. It’s basically a way of them saying that they don’t want to talk about it or listen to your upset. It’s the opposite of active listening.

This.

My boss told us off at work for having banter about our workload to make light of how depressing it all is, and told us all we were being negative and he is desperately trying to keep it positive.

Then he said his cousin had committed suicide and he can't help but think he'd still be here if people were more positive towards him!

While I think it's utterly tragic that someone felt the need to take their own life I also think that A) depression is an illness that stops you seeing the positive when it's thrusted right in your face and B) being positive doesn't fix all problems and it's quite oppressive to tell people that they can't express their negative emotions.

I find ‘You got this’ irritating. I had this said to me when DH was ill by friends who I expect didn’t know what else to say.

Only I didn’t ‘have it’. I was trying to be strong for everyone, DH, the DC. Who was being strong for me?

@MadameMinimes

I do agree that these sorts of phrases are unhelpful but I think a PP may be right about it being a way for them to shut down the conversation because they are finding it too much. These people are not trained professionals and it can be overwhelming when somebody opens up to you about such complex issues when you don’t have the skills, training or experience to know how to help or what to say for the best. If someone is wheeling out these sorts of stock phrases then I think it”s a sign that they aren’t equipped to deal with it, rather than assuming they don’t care. I think you should look into professional counselling. It sounds like you need someone to talk to about this who has the training and skills to respond appropriately and help you to work through what has happened to you.

I feel like that's a massive cop out though. You don't need training or specialisation to say "I'm sorry" or "fucking hell that's shit" . OP isn't asking anyone to be a therapist, or fix her problems or even to endlessly listen. Just an acknowledgment that yes it sucks,and of course it sucks.

Where do these people live ? How do they have any kind of relationship ? How do they function if they can't handle any negativity without a degree? Do they never complain about the shit in their lives?

I often find it's more of a matter of priorities and lack of want rather than inability.

@MadameMinimes

I do agree that these sorts of phrases are unhelpful but I think a PP may be right about it being a way for them to shut down the conversation because they are finding it too much. These people are not trained professionals and it can be overwhelming when somebody opens up to you about such complex issues when you don’t have the skills, training or experience to know how to help or what to say for the best. If someone is wheeling out these sorts of stock phrases then I think it”s a sign that they aren’t equipped to deal with it, rather than assuming they don’t care. I think you should look into professional counselling. It sounds like you need someone to talk to about this who has the training and skills to respond appropriately and help you to work through what has happened to you.

You don't have to say or do anything. You just listen and say things that acknowledge what a difficult time they're going through. You can say something along the lines of 'I've never been through anything like this myself, so I don't know whether there's anything I can do to help. What do you need right now?'

This is just what good friends do. Listen (and hear, not just in one ear and out the other) and let people talk. Don't shut them up. By telling someone they need professional counselling you're just shutting them up in a different way.

It strikes me that this toxic positivity is very closely associated with Be Kind-ism and that both are used in a negative and often very vicious way.

What IDontWanna said.

How hard is it to say "I'm sorry you're having a shit time"?

OP - I am sorry you've had a shit time and I really hope things improve.

I'm a very glass-half-full, Pollyanna-ish sort of person but even I recognise that it is really damaging not to allow people to feel and express the full range of emotions.

It's fine to be angry, sad, in pain, lost, despairing when you have things to feel angry, sad, lost, in pain and despairing about. Those feelings are there to help us process and heal. If you don't have anyone in real life who will listen and acknowledge these feelings, it can be therapeutic to write them in a journal where you can absolutely let rip and be as sweary and furious and vindictive as you want. It's quite a release.

@LittleSnakes

I completely agree. It’s basically a way of them saying that they don’t want to talk about it or listen to your upset. It’s the opposite of active listening.

Yes it is @LittleSnakes, well said! @CoraggioCara- well said too and your friend sounds lovely, a true gem! I'm so sorry for what you've been put through OP, you really have had a kicking from life and I hope and pray things get much, much better for you very soon!

As a society we have no idea how to validate each other. If we can just stay positive and avoid how we feel everything will be fine....
Emotionally immaturity is rife for most people.
Validate yourself and if needed get a decent therapist to bounce shit off.

Absolutely agree. Things do NOT happen 'for a reason'. They just happen. Some are utterly shit. All you can do is heal the best you can and move on.

Anyone who talks like that, I just don’t tell them stuff anymore. There’s no point when people try to shut the conversation down. Love brene brown, will check out that episode.

I find toxically positive people have had little wrong in their lives. The ones who have genuinely struggled would never be so trite.

The book "Smile or Die" by Barbara Ehrenreich is very good on this. It pre-dates the term 'toxic positivity' but that's what it's about. This notion that being 'positive' even in dire circumstances is always best. Sure, it works for some, but it is indeed toxic to force it on everyone. It just adds another burden on top of everything else.

Toxic positivity is a very American phenomenon, but like so many things American, it's usually only a matter of time before it reaches our shores. Now it has.

@HangingOver

"everything happens for a reason" has only ever been said to me by people who haven't had much wrong with their lives.

A friend sad it to me in a throwaway manner once and I said to her, 'you need to be really really careful who you say that to mate. Things happen for a reason in the sense that there's jam on the floor because you dropped the jar...but if you mean it in a hippy dippy cosmic justice sort of way, bare in mind if someone had told me everything happened for a reason when I was nursing my mother who took three months to die in horrific pain, I'd have not very politely asked what possible reason there could be for that'.

She looked appalled - I don't think she'd every thought of the implications of that phrase - she just uses it to contextualise minor inconveniences in her own life.

Oh you are so right.

Sometimes it's not always "toxic positivity" though. Once a person has validated your feelings and supported and empathised with you, how long do you carry on without moving forward? Some people do get stuck in grief and others do negatively ruminate for years upon a perceived misjustice or take every opportunity to trauma dump on their loved ones whilst trying to process their own emotions (i'm not talking about you op).
Distraction can be a healthy coping mechanism and maybe sometimes family and friends are just trying to do that